For KellyJ - Page 9

yet you guys actually read it and cannot help but to read it, and say how pointless it is. You have no dog in this hunt, as you do not train your dogs for anything. That alone makes a big difference in perception.

Discussion is interesting. Arguments that can never be "won", pissing contests, and penis measurements are all tiresome and futile.

Back again to your safe place where you say everyone else must be wrong because they don't train their dogs for anything. The SchH people are wrong because SchH is easy, the PSD/MWD people are wrong because what they do is easy, and everyone else is wrong because they don't do anything at all. Some people train their dogs for everything, yet you see it as nothing because there are no trophies. Kind of sad, really, because the working dog world is quite small to begin with. To divide ourselves up into warring camps seems pointless and counterproductive. Just my opinion, which apparently I have no right to, as I not only know nothing, but I do nothing. 

You won't hear another peep from me. 

 

Kelly, dont redicule yourself. Why dont you come out to our club and try Schutzhund for a while. Arent you just a couple hours away and looked for a club not that long ago? Actual doing it and seing your dogs reaction is a different story than reading about things and imagining that the dog can do it . Did you actual read the links you posted? Its talked about a handfull of dogs! There are always those exceptional beings you can find in every breed that excell in something they werent really bred for. At current we have a Mutt training at our club and doing fine. However the truth shall be seen once the dog will experience the real stick pressure in bite work, and thats where many of the uncommen participants will fall apart.

Quote: Back again to your safe place where you say everyone else must be wrong because they don't train their dogs for anything

So I said everyone ? I said you. I am always in a safe place, but nice try. You want to be known for something, but do not want to actually go out and do something to figure it out. That is why even though the same words are said, the chances that the meanings are the same are very little. 

I have read so many posts from you over the years scoffing at sport dogs, and what not, but you don't train your dogs. Going out and doing two days of this, or a week of that is not really learning much but surface things. I have no idea, but you might be producing some nice dogs. 

You will never know what is easy or what is hard based on your own experience. I really wish you would go out and actually train a dog and title a dog and have fun and not be so bitter because you "just can't deal with it" . I don't like most dog people any better than you do. But I make the best effort I can on a really limited budget and keep going. 

People that train their dogs for everything never ever figure it out, and is that what you think you are doing ? Training for everything ? Can't be done.

I was looking for a club awhile back. I spoke with many nice people in the process. However after speaking with a local K9 trainer, who used to participate in schutzhund, my views on the overall sport changed. There is no doubt that schutzhud is HARD to train. I know that!

My question was...what does the title prove?

That you have a highly trainable dog...That you are a awesome trainer....

OR that you have a breed worthy working dog.

It was designed as a breedworthy test for working dogs...does it still hold up to that standard?

Im am not trying to come off as a know it all. I am the first to admit that I know very little. I am asking these questions to learn more. I do believe there are great dogs and great trainers that participate in schutzhund.

 

nice thread.

most people breed for money. but there is some that breed for something.

i admire people that breed dogs for the police etc.

 

and yes a dog that is 85-90lb male is a really nice weight. due to faster movement and less damage to hips etc.

 

and i did see someone that mention that mali is a better dog for schz cheaper and what not.

first a gsd dog is like buying a brand name peice of clothing. you pay for the name GSD.

but walmart sells the same shit for 5 dollors.

 

and for a mali yes they are easier to train. but correct me if im wrong. for a less expereince handler if they train a mali and screw up. its sooooo dam hard to teach them the correct way. impossible to retrain. but a gsd can be retrain and retrain over and over again. that is what makes him great dogs.

 

and my freind had a mali. fast and a good dog when i saw it. but he was telling me there such pain in the asses at home. always need to go pet or walked or train. im sorry but when people like me work 12h days 6 days aweek. and have one day off just for training. sometimes i dont have the energy to train or go for a long run.

 

but point is that a mali is for a really expreince handler that has hours to train.

and jeff if your breeding for a purpose and not for money. then maybe done the road ill purchase a gsd from you.

but you have to show what your trying achieve and after couple litters and titles on those litters. im sure your name will be top 10 for sure.

 

I would NEVER trade my gsd for a mali dog or any high drive dog outside. i like him the way he is.

he has boarder patrol lines and police lines too. hes great on field and awesome at home when i was to rest.

 

thats my 2 cents

and for a title. prvoes nothing except when u want to breed or to show off.

my freind dog is the best trained dog i have seen, even better then the top dogs ive seen on youtube.

so the OB you walk around 4 people. great thats nice to see really nice.

 

but try walking downtown thousand of people. he wont pee unless told too. he wont jump or attack anyone unless at night time when he feels there is a threat.

 

i beleive a great dog is a dog that is still partly a kid at heart. im sorry but i love puppies and how they play.

 

theres alway a swtich you should beable to turn off and on. home should be a dog and play and roll around and go into the trash and make your life hell once in awhile, but after you smile and play with your dog. when you go out. your dog should love everyone but you the most of all.

 

titles are a show off. ncie to have dont get me wrong. but peopole show them off way too much!!

ego. like having a big truck but small pe*is!!

 

:)

What does it prove?  It proves your dog is titled and that's it.  The thing is, it never was proof of anything, in and of itself.  In a perfect world, maybe, but anyone who knows what they are doing, knows there are far to many variables involved to ever place so much importance in a title as to think it automatically means a dog is  breed worthy, I mean come on!  It's a start place for many, you look at the trial the title was earned at, you look at the judge, you look at the score, so it's one factor, not the be all or end all.

Yes, a good trainer can train a shitter to a title.  So what?  It doesn't mean therefore all dogs are shitters and it doesn't mean it's easy to compete at a certain level or for some, any level.  You don't discount the sport in it's entirety just because it's not perfect, well not unless you're looking for an excuse not to play at all. It means you are responsible for learning what you are looking at so you aren't blinded by a title or a trainer.  That's on the individual, I don't care what the sport is.

Ego???  Comments like those are why my friends are my friends, because clearly someone who is on the outside looking in doesn't understand.  The frustration is when someone like you passes judgement even though you have no idea what we do or why.  My friends and I do sport because we love it.  Our dogs love it too.  It's not easy, it takes a real commitment, it's not for a lazy person.  We train at least 3 or 4 times a week  as group, dailly on our own,  and we don't skip training when we are tired or when the weather is bad, hell we don't skip training for very many reasons at all, but that's OK because we and our dogs love it.   It requires a certain obssession to do it well.  That's the thing, you can just barely pass by, you can make sure you trial with an easy wink wink judge at the club trial or you can go out there and trial before a tough judge at a trial with serious competition, that's up to you, you get out what you put into it.

Oh and one more thing.  Yes my dog is very well trained, but at the same time, the minute I whisper "free" to him, game on, he's my wild boy, more than a handful,  a ton of fun, who has never once needed my permission to lift his leg or take a dump.  You  want to know why my dog and I have such a strong bond and why my dog is so happy?  Because we do sport, and we are a team.   Ego....uh huh. 

 sueincc.
Honestly i wasnt passing judgemnt buddy. my ego comment is for certain people.
dont get me wrong i do sport to. i love it, i train everyday at supper time and throw the ball with commands inbetween.

we train too, never missed unless i was crunched for a deadline for work since i own my own company.
contractors say this is the date, and we fall behind due to other trades. i miss training. but i make up by going to the park, throw the ball run around etc.

all i was saying was the title comment. and as u said its goood for breeding. and i agreee.
for example my pissing comment was that. would u like to see a dog piss downtown on a sign for the KEG?
or on a tree by a huge mall? or even pooing in the middle of the street.

despite what u say, you and your dog isnt the only person in the world.
now its the handler, to let your dog go pee and poo before a nice walk downtown.

im gald that your dog is alot like my dog.
are bonds with are dogs are huge, my dog comes to work with me.
he follows me around the house its awesome. he just loves being with me.
dogs love to WORK, even when are yorkie isnt lazy and he puts a effort he doesn really well for a tiny dog.

all dogs are smart, sometimes they choose not to be, but they do amaze you.

Sue to add to your astute post, knowledgable people don't just breed to the champ or high scoring dogs. Remember Bastin. Sold to the ole US and what has become of that? Or how bout Mike Deihl's dog before Erri?-------------------------Kelly, I think this was a time where you should have sat it out. You knew what you were doing when you asked the question and like Jenni said, anyone could see the intent. Until you actually spend some time in each, you can't say anything. Going by what some trainer says is a joke. If I did that, I would have never looked at SchH. When I got into dog training, the guy I trained with was always ridiculing the sport. I took it upon myself to go out and see. Make up my own mind. And your comment about the ROUTINE, well I guess you don't make it to the training section much. I posted a question on the first day it was here about how often people do the routine in training. Most people don't. Most people train above and beyond what a trial asks for. That way the trial is easy to the dog. Routine? Routine? What is routine? Don't you think ring is routine to the dog if you train him right? Do you honestly think ole Jiffy Jeff trains his dog without distractions, then on trial day a fricken pompom is new to him? Hell no! You train them for it. But let me ask you something. Should each competitor get different amounts of stick hits? Should each competitor get a different look than the next? Don't you think a standard across the board is fair game for the field?