Making Of A VA Dog In The US - Page 1

The Sieger Show is changing in the US. Years ago the highest placing male from the German Sieger show was first VA, the second highest placing male second, etc.

Now the sieger show is a breed show as it is in Germany and was intended to be. To 'earn' a VA rating vs. 'being awarded' a VA rating you have to develop and present a progeny group.

This requires breeders across America to completely rethink their programs. They have to form a team. This creates a tremendous opportunity for GSD enthusiasts across the country to participate at all levels. It's no longer the one with the most money wins.

We would like to extend an opportunity to enthusiasts to participate in our program. We already have breeders coming together and developing the group. We have many excellent offspring to offer. We need new people that want to be involved and participate. We can't keep all the good offspring that need to go to the show.

What we have:

We have a VA contender.

                                                     Introducing

                                        Waiko vom Schaumbergerland

Our goal is for Waiko to be the first sable to go VA in the US. He has all the credentials to warrant the VA rating. He was the highest placing sable at the German Sieger show in the youth class. The dog in front of him in the class was structurally very close to him obviously. This dog is the current VA2 dog from the German Sieger Show. His structure is excellent. He's SchH3, KKl1, 'a' normal hips and 'a' normal elbows. His breed score is 79 and he's OFA DNA tested negative/negative for DM. He's not at risk and his offspring will not be at risk according to the OFA information. Waiko comes from a strong producing motherline which is an essential quality for a VA dog. His mother produced the #11 female and #22 male and is VA rated herself.

We and our breeder friends have excellent progeny from him. We need enthusiastic people that want to participate in training, showing, and breeding German Shepherds to be a part of the team. Please contact us with your interests.

Good luck Randy, he sure looks a VA boy.

Ibrahim

I would like to echo the comments of Dog1.  We have many excellent offspring from Waiko's many breedings since he came to the US, so many more than we alone can raise and prepare.  These are excellent prospects so we invite you to join the team.  

PM sent to Dog1

Since this thread is about what it takes to make VA, let's look at the progeny groups since they are the single biggest factor determining the VA rating. How are they developed? What goes into them? What do you have to do? Which ones are successful? Anyone know?

Actually I think recently it's been just the opposite. It seems the past few US Sieger Shows (both USCA and WDA) I've noticed a lot of young dogs that aren't even old enough to have a progeny group (or just one of lots of young puppies) have gone VA.

Very interesting concept and great advertising for Waiko.  Great looking dog, good luck with him.

Jim

At NASS last year there were quite a few progeny groups and some of the VA dogs had large, consistant examples to show off.... it was most definately impressive.

Let's look at the VA group. There's a pattern. The higher VA ratings are generally reserved for the dogs with the progeny to reinforce the judges decision. Progeny groups are a double edged sword. If your dog produces well it goes up as it should. If your dog dosen't have a good group, the opposite can happen.

VA groups typically have previous VA dogs that didn't present a group coming back with a group to show it's production potential and ability to impact the breed in order to climb the ladder. This should reinforce the judges decision to place the dog in the VA group. If the dog reappears without a group and is of age to have presented a group, this is considered a fault and the judge must decide to re-award the VA rating or give another dog the chance.

The lower VA ratings are usually given to young dogs or recent imports that show potential to impact the breed. All things should be taken into consideration. The dog's structural assembly and the individual components, pedigree and what the lines produce, training degrees, performance on the field, hip and elbow ratings, ZW, previous placements under other judges, etc.

The VA group is a mixture of dogs of different bloodlines, usually no more than two from the same male, placed in order considering production and potential. It is very easy to see if a class is judged correctly this way.

Take the most recent sieger show for example. (you could pretty much take any sieger show in the past few years) Here we had the first two VA positions going to North American bred dogs with a group placing higher than a dog that placed top 10 in the world. Next year will be the top 10's and new VA dogs turn to present a group for a shot at the VA1 spot. The progeny is very important in the final result. It is a breed show, and the progeny is the result of the breeding.

Progeny groups in Germany are very different than they are in the US. The US is still evolving.

In Germany breeders rally around a male, support the male through selecting him as a breeding partner. Breed for the chance to produce a top specimen. Stud dog owners, especially those in the VA catagory have a difficult task. They need females, they need the right females, they hope the right ones come. Why is that? Quality, the male has to produce quality and pass on his traits consistently to move up. Most of the VA owners I know with an up and coming dog require you to commit to showing something from the breeding before they will breed to your female. Think about it. You have a limited number of breedings, you need progeny, whay breed your dog to a substandard female where the owner will just use your dog as a sales tool to sell puppies. The system in Europe creates it's own checks and balance.

If the group is not good, the dog fades away. So Germans are pulling together, usually the stud dog owner visits the litter to see what is in the litter. it's a big effort by many breeders to pull the group off effectively.

Cross the ocean and look at how it's done here. The progeny group is full of dogs from the owner's kennel. One breeder, one dog, lots of puppies. We're still very different in this respect from the Europeans. This puts all the work on the breeder that owns the male. To a degree it limits who will be the VA contenders, only the kennels with the resources. The kennels with enough females to produce litter after litter and the labor to grow the puppies out. It's a huge undertaking. Do these breeders that can afford to get a male, put their females on him, keep puppies, show puppies, train puppies deserve to get te VA for their efforts? I would have to say they deserve consideration based on their results.

When you look at how and what the breed system is. Someone has to put forth the effort to bring the elements together. In the process, dogs are shown, they're trained, etc. The system in intended to be self perpetuating. One side effect is the larger kennels dominate the show.

Waiko will be the first dog to break that trend. Never before have so many kennels bred to one male. The group from Waiko will be comprised of kennels from around the country. Waiko will be the first dog in the US to present a group modeled after the European example.