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by vhleigbiter on 28 July 2011 - 23:07
I think most people commenting here, except Jeff, have little or no ringsport experience. Daryl, really? Glbtrottr? Give me a break.
Let's drop more names too, "Flinksy" jeezus people everyone goes to seminars, who cares. Show me your dog, not who you brag about being friends with, or talking with. I've seen Lloyd post the story about Wallace Payne before. Who cares?
Let's see some videos of your fabulous dogs in action. PROVE IT. Let's see your decoy work. PROVE IT. I'd much rather be pleasantly surprised by someone's dog doing well and seeing it for myself, than seeing people with no training ability posting about their alleged accomplishments. If you're that good, show us.
A good dog is a good dog. Some jump better than others. Some bite better than others. Some track better. Find one that has the traits you desire, and train the damn thing. There is no perfect dog, accept their imperfections as long as the things you need are there, and train it. Mondioring tests different things than schH. French Ring tests different things. SchH tests different things. So be it, they are different sports, and all are difficult. No one will ever agree that their favorite sport is less difficult than others, so let's move on.
On another note, love that bitch, Steinhart Indy. Looks like a really nice dog. Let's keep this thread going with some highlight videos.
Let's drop more names too, "Flinksy" jeezus people everyone goes to seminars, who cares. Show me your dog, not who you brag about being friends with, or talking with. I've seen Lloyd post the story about Wallace Payne before. Who cares?
Let's see some videos of your fabulous dogs in action. PROVE IT. Let's see your decoy work. PROVE IT. I'd much rather be pleasantly surprised by someone's dog doing well and seeing it for myself, than seeing people with no training ability posting about their alleged accomplishments. If you're that good, show us.
A good dog is a good dog. Some jump better than others. Some bite better than others. Some track better. Find one that has the traits you desire, and train the damn thing. There is no perfect dog, accept their imperfections as long as the things you need are there, and train it. Mondioring tests different things than schH. French Ring tests different things. SchH tests different things. So be it, they are different sports, and all are difficult. No one will ever agree that their favorite sport is less difficult than others, so let's move on.
On another note, love that bitch, Steinhart Indy. Looks like a really nice dog. Let's keep this thread going with some highlight videos.
by darylehret on 29 July 2011 - 00:07
I think most people commenting here, except Jeff, have little or no ringsport experience. Daryl, really? Glbtrottr? Give me a break.
Give ME a break. I never said I did, I only mentioned a Tiekerhook dog that does MR (and quite well at it), since Tiekerhook dogs came up. For the record: I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE IN MONDIO RINGSPORT. Feel better?
by Jeff Oehlsen on 29 July 2011 - 06:07
Yes Daryl. Finally I can go to sleep. HA HA
No matter what I write, it seems like I should just write F you F you F you F you, as that is all that so many seem to think I am saying.
I am going to try again. I want MORE people to try Mondio or French ring with their GSD. I would like this, so that I can get some feedback as to how their dog did, and why it did well, or why it did not do well. I want to be able to go and see them compete with their dog and see if I like it. I would love to never have to get another dog from europe in my lifetime.
Sch does not test the dog in the way I need it tested. Not bad, not good, just not what is going to help me.
No matter what I write, it seems like I should just write F you F you F you F you, as that is all that so many seem to think I am saying.
I am going to try again. I want MORE people to try Mondio or French ring with their GSD. I would like this, so that I can get some feedback as to how their dog did, and why it did well, or why it did not do well. I want to be able to go and see them compete with their dog and see if I like it. I would love to never have to get another dog from europe in my lifetime.
Sch does not test the dog in the way I need it tested. Not bad, not good, just not what is going to help me.
by darylehret on 29 July 2011 - 12:07
Can you outline (again) what characteristics you feel should be sought for in a MR prospect? The jumping athleticism, the temperament and drive specifics, and all that. What to avoid?
Why do you think a GSD can do well (vs mals), when the record shows otherwise? I can't see encouragement for many gsd owners when appearantly for example, ONE german shepherd participated at the world event in the last couple years, that I could tell. Sure, there are some few others actively participating in their respective national events, but they're not winning.
I don't think MORE gsd handlers can change that, as much as specialized breeding could.
Why do you think a GSD can do well (vs mals), when the record shows otherwise? I can't see encouragement for many gsd owners when appearantly for example, ONE german shepherd participated at the world event in the last couple years, that I could tell. Sure, there are some few others actively participating in their respective national events, but they're not winning.
I don't think MORE gsd handlers can change that, as much as specialized breeding could.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 30 July 2011 - 06:07
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I would like to see a dog that can maintain his drive under pressure in training. That is something that I am still working out in my head, what is trained and what is just the dog. Esko really enjoys the OG and stays in drive the whole time. I have seen dogs that due to the pressure of having to stay with the object, and the decoy doing nothing to pump the dog up, lose the basket. I am still working out how much is training, and how much is the dog having higher thresholds. So, that is number one for me with what I am breeding for. I think that will be the hardest part, as I believe that higher thresholds are passed on at a higher rate than a lower threshold.
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I think that in this country as far as I have seen, dog owners go with what they feel will give them the best shot. There has always been hype about the Mal and for good reason. However, I have seen enough GSD do well to believe that they can compete. The GSD was the main breed for a long time with FR and then the Mal, in the late 60's just started taking over. It is a much more reactive breed, and that is a huge advantage for them. The other problem is that there are so few working homes to begin with, many breeders are satisfied with getting only one or two that will work out of a litter, as the pet homes are way more prevalent in the US. I believe this is a major contributor to the higher thresholds in the GSD. There are many GSD that if not "woken up" will remain as pets. I am not really saying that the way I want, but if I tried, it would be three posts long, and I am still not sure I could really explain fully what I meant.
The other problem is that I have seen GSD attempting to do ring, trained as if they were Mals. That is another huge explanation but you post up a Mal, he will always believe that he can get to the decoy, no matter the distance, and many GSD, when posted, will wait till the decoy gets closer, and stop believing that they can go to him. The critical distance where the dog believes he can get a bite shrinks very rapidly with a GSD. Works great for Sch and the B&H. I prefer that the GSD is never held back and is allowed to inch forward to keep them believing that effort will pay off.
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| Can you outline (again) what characteristics you feel should be sought for in a MR prospect? The jumping athleticism, the temperament and drive specifics, and all that. What to avoid? |
I would like to see a dog that can maintain his drive under pressure in training. That is something that I am still working out in my head, what is trained and what is just the dog. Esko really enjoys the OG and stays in drive the whole time. I have seen dogs that due to the pressure of having to stay with the object, and the decoy doing nothing to pump the dog up, lose the basket. I am still working out how much is training, and how much is the dog having higher thresholds. So, that is number one for me with what I am breeding for. I think that will be the hardest part, as I believe that higher thresholds are passed on at a higher rate than a lower threshold.
Quote:
| Why do you think a GSD can do well (vs mals), when the record shows otherwise? |
I think that in this country as far as I have seen, dog owners go with what they feel will give them the best shot. There has always been hype about the Mal and for good reason. However, I have seen enough GSD do well to believe that they can compete. The GSD was the main breed for a long time with FR and then the Mal, in the late 60's just started taking over. It is a much more reactive breed, and that is a huge advantage for them. The other problem is that there are so few working homes to begin with, many breeders are satisfied with getting only one or two that will work out of a litter, as the pet homes are way more prevalent in the US. I believe this is a major contributor to the higher thresholds in the GSD. There are many GSD that if not "woken up" will remain as pets. I am not really saying that the way I want, but if I tried, it would be three posts long, and I am still not sure I could really explain fully what I meant.
The other problem is that I have seen GSD attempting to do ring, trained as if they were Mals. That is another huge explanation but you post up a Mal, he will always believe that he can get to the decoy, no matter the distance, and many GSD, when posted, will wait till the decoy gets closer, and stop believing that they can go to him. The critical distance where the dog believes he can get a bite shrinks very rapidly with a GSD. Works great for Sch and the B&H. I prefer that the GSD is never held back and is allowed to inch forward to keep them believing that effort will pay off.
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by vhleigbiter on 01 August 2011 - 19:08
No videos yet? I'll go first.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Xitl4TMWs
A 4.5 month old Lasso Bett Silver x Kenya vom Gieske pup, "Sahara". Video taken yesterday. She is a lot of dog for her first time handler, Ben. I'm sure Jeff recognizes the decoy.
Our girl, Nefer, is a bit unique. Our friend Bernard Flinks paid us a huge compliment when offering to buy her. Many others have as well. She's a ton of *drive* for a working line shepherd, from Czech and DDR lines. We titled her to an MR1 in the US and has 1 leg of her MR2, and we decided to breed her to the most appropriate male that had the drive and temperament to bring it, so our good friends Sharon Ronen and Stefan Juntke wanted to breed her to Sam Haboxer, the 2009 WUSV Champion and 2010 second place holder. Sam is also a former Israeli military working dog.
It's nice to see that there are GSDs titling in Mondio. I didn't know that Nefer got a MR2 leg, awesome....I didn't see it in the USMRA trial results. Congratulations on a great acomplishment. It takes dedication and hard work to title a dog in any dog sport, great job. There is proof that a GSD can compete in Mondioring. Can we see some video?
Daryl, let's see some examples of your training. I've read your posts on several forums, show us what you can do. I saw your Tiekerhook dog as a pup at Front Range Schutzhund Club, and he had great potential. Let's see some video of him in action. He's what about 4 years old now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Xitl4TMWs
A 4.5 month old Lasso Bett Silver x Kenya vom Gieske pup, "Sahara". Video taken yesterday. She is a lot of dog for her first time handler, Ben. I'm sure Jeff recognizes the decoy.
Our girl, Nefer, is a bit unique. Our friend Bernard Flinks paid us a huge compliment when offering to buy her. Many others have as well. She's a ton of *drive* for a working line shepherd, from Czech and DDR lines. We titled her to an MR1 in the US and has 1 leg of her MR2, and we decided to breed her to the most appropriate male that had the drive and temperament to bring it, so our good friends Sharon Ronen and Stefan Juntke wanted to breed her to Sam Haboxer, the 2009 WUSV Champion and 2010 second place holder. Sam is also a former Israeli military working dog.
It's nice to see that there are GSDs titling in Mondio. I didn't know that Nefer got a MR2 leg, awesome....I didn't see it in the USMRA trial results. Congratulations on a great acomplishment. It takes dedication and hard work to title a dog in any dog sport, great job. There is proof that a GSD can compete in Mondioring. Can we see some video?
Daryl, let's see some examples of your training. I've read your posts on several forums, show us what you can do. I saw your Tiekerhook dog as a pup at Front Range Schutzhund Club, and he had great potential. Let's see some video of him in action. He's what about 4 years old now?
by darylehret on 02 August 2011 - 01:08
You wanna see my MR3 with Hutch? Don't hold your breath.
by Donnerstorm on 02 August 2011 - 02:08
This thread was pretty interesting the videos were great. I had only heard of ring one other time had no idea what it actually was. You guys have mentioned police dogs alot in this thread. My male was trained for the street. Now granted he is a dynamo the last time he went on a track he did so with a train less than 2 feet from him blowing it's horn etc and he finished the track train did not bother him. He likes to bite and has no problem going to get it. The only bark and hold he has is he barks and I hold if I have to let go you get bit, and he will chase you down to do it. I have not done schutzund before I have read a couple of books so I can't say anything about that sport either. My experience is SAR dogs, police k9's and pp dogs. Ring does look like fun and looks like something my dogs would have a blast at, as would I. Why is it not bigger in the US, and maybe we should change that!!!
by Jeff Oehlsen on 02 August 2011 - 05:08
Yes, we should change that. : )
Jim, I recognize skatina doing his thing. Definately that handler is a bit new. : ) Has Sandro been out recently ? He has been really busy with his new business, I got to talk to him a few weeks ago.
Hutch is a nice solid dog. Daryl has decided to live in the middle of nowhere, but I would have loved to have seen what that dog could accomplish in MR. I got to work with him a little at a seminar I gave in South Dakota.
Jim, I recognize skatina doing his thing. Definately that handler is a bit new. : ) Has Sandro been out recently ? He has been really busy with his new business, I got to talk to him a few weeks ago.
Hutch is a nice solid dog. Daryl has decided to live in the middle of nowhere, but I would have loved to have seen what that dog could accomplish in MR. I got to work with him a little at a seminar I gave in South Dakota.
by judron55 on 02 August 2011 - 11:08
here are some nice german Shepherds....ring 1-2
Championat de France en Grand Prix
http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/968872/Vermer-de-la-Ptite-Flore
mondio1, ring 2
http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/950159/Edjy-de-la-Horde-Valnégrienne
ring 2
http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/968877/BriCard-du-Mystère-dArroc
ring 2
http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/968895/Djeday-des-Loups-du-Val-dAncre
ring 2
http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/941361/Domy-van-de-Duvetorre
http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/178908/Canto-de-la-Coquellerie
Championat de France en Grand Prix
http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/968872/Vermer-de-la-Ptite-Flore
mondio1, ring 2
http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/950159/Edjy-de-la-Horde-Valnégrienne
ring 2
http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/968877/BriCard-du-Mystère-dArroc
ring 2
http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/968895/Djeday-des-Loups-du-Val-dAncre
ring 2
http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/941361/Domy-van-de-Duvetorre
http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/178908/Canto-de-la-Coquellerie
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