Schutzhunds obsession with extreme prey drive. - Page 1

Amazing how many here brag about and want EXTREME prey drive. Only thing I can think of is it looks good on the field for ego fulfillment. Why would anyone want that? Especially around the house? Maybe to chase rabbits? Also there is this big obsession about training in prey first. My dog is being PPD trained and never had a prey session in his life other than chasing a ball. Defense only and bites as hard with good grips as any prey trained dog. There is no doubt if I let him go He would chase and hold. NONE. You are ruining the breed by wanting such extreme drives. Me? I want the real thing out non the street. Not some wild squealing pig begging to be let go to grab a piece of material. When you overly train and breed for prey thats all you are getting. Especially when started so young.

Not me!!!  I am old school. The dogs use to bite...now they grip.   A good friend always said..."dog bite, monkeys grip". 

I like a dog which is well balanced, secure, has good suspicion, and does not serve coffee and donuts.  I want a devoted dog who gives no value to strangers, unless they given reason.

Wow ...welcome to the board...lol


 

I couldn't agree more!!!!  A lot of trainers cannot motivate or get those kinds of dogs to bite a sleeve and then say they have no drive, but we know better, don't we.  Several people on the board have very serious, stable dogs for whom biting is not a game and for whom games are reserved for their owner and no one else who have either been told the dog has no drive or the dog is too serious and too civil for schutzhund (sometimes it is the same dog different trainers are talking about).  Funny, that those kinds of dogs bite when called for and some prey monsters bite it if it moves even if that means a child running.

Lots of us like a balanced, one person, serious, possessive dog and that is why some of us like the DDR, Czech lines mixed with some west German lines.  

Who does a better job of catching a fleeing criminal, a high prey dog or a defensive dog?  Who has more motivation to search an area or a building, find, and disable a criminal, a high prey dog or a defensive dog?

Im new so I'll hold back a bit... I would have to say the same thing about those dogs who are bred for all defense. Would venture to even use the words "weak nerved". Where as a dog with super intense prey drive...well it can still be stable and controlled by using it's own drive as a form of manipulating it's training. But without defense it's useless. Without prey drive it's useless. Some people like more of one than the other. But both are needed. Just depends on you training style and what the dog is used for

Yes both are needed but don't forget "defence" is a fear based reaction. A lot of dogs cannot be trained in defence unless they are "tied back" and have no other choice but stay and react. Also no one really knows how their PP dog will act in a real life situation unless the training was complete and done by an expert. In a real life situation even the handlers reactions, voice, body language, fear driven excitement, etc. can freak out a dog to react differently than how he was trained.

If my dog is going to be with me 24/7 then he has to be social, dog and people neutral and able to discern what is happening. 

We must not forget that sport use of a dog is a valid endeavor for hundreds of people and prey drive is what pushes the dog to survive. Man has learned to make use of this drive (prey/hunt) for usefull purposes also (SAR, LE, etc.).

I agree that there are a lot of dogs with unbalanced drives but the main problem with a lot of today's dogs seems to be their nerves and their thresholds. In general, I also think that yesterdays dogs were calmerand more "serious".

Just my opinion.

Lots of us like a balanced, one person, serious, possessive dog and that is why some of us like the DDR, Czech lines mixed with some west German lines.  

those types of breedings seem to be the flavor of the day...must be some reason for all the Czech/WG breedings going on:-) What are people looking for? What are the Czech dogs lacking that makes breeding to a WG dog a better mix?

Why would anyone want that? Especially around the house? Maybe to chase rabbits? Also there is this big obsession about training in prey first.

Wouldn't that be a different type of "prey drive" regarding live prey.?  I have a Husky who is 21 weeks old.  If an animal is in his presence in the yard, his goal is to kill it.  He will chase any prey and kill it........Will he go after a bite tug or a sleeve......no way, he has zero desire to go for the "prey items".   In fact, all of my Huskies are like that.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that though.

@ Koach....defense becomes fear based when it is brought out by helpers pinching and poking a dog.

Many dogs are naturally defensive, coming out naturally due to the dog having good suspicion, and good nerves.  I do see many dogs bred now who are defensive with no suspicion. IMO, those dogs are out of balance.
 

I also see many helpers who can only train "prey whores".  Not happening with my dogs.  I like a dog well balanced in defense and prey, possessing good suspicion with strong nerves and lightening speed.  I believe speed is inherited.  Some dogs can be made a little faster, but FAST dogs possess it in their heart.

I believe the dogs changed drasticly when the old long bite was taken out.  It gave light to the real drives in the dog. (The helper first running away from the dog...then running at the dog.)  Those dogs were ran.  I see many today who should be ran!!

Then they took the attack on handler out of SchH1.  That sucks!!!  Many dogs never made it past the 1, due to the attack. Even if a dog has a 3 now, it doesn't mean anything to me...unless I see the dog work.  Even pronounced is given very easily now.

It has all become "watered down" with many GSDs acting like Golden Retrievers.  So Sad!!