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by Slamdunc on 02 October 2011 - 18:10
I agree the dictionary definitions and dog terminology are often completely different. Civil has a completely different meaning when referring to ogs and people. Defense is a trait, not necessarily in regards to protective ability.
by yellowrose of Texas on 02 October 2011 - 19:10
Slamdunc:
THERE MUST be something wrong with all my kids here, then, cause the gang I now have left are untrained except obed and I know for a fact that none of them will back down.
HAS to do with what bloodlines are stirring around I guess. My ggrkids are out of Orthos Tiekerhook and all the BuseckerSchloss, Enclavehof, with a chunk of Korbeltal , Wildsteiger in them.
Three months ago a very bad teenager decided to jump my end gate one afternoon and he grabbed the rake near the tree he got to , raised it to strike Gauda running at him..I was down the hill and thought I was hearing things. I knew no other dog was out to fight with..I yelled Gauda , not knowing, and he didn't come.
Then I heard HELP! ;screaming get this &&(*&&(&( dog off of me. I ran fast as I could and the dog had the rake, in his mouth tugging at it and the kid would not turn loose of it, for fear his body would take the place,,,I ran and took Gauda, off with collar and almost beat the teen with the rake my self.
Gauda was put in a sitz and I called SO and actually hooked the jeans on the kid to the fence with a dog leash.
BIG signs on my fences...No tresspassing....POSTED ...ALSO FOR legality..everyone in corn county knows there are more than 4 dogs on my property.. All of them were loudly letting the kid know another one might be on its way... I have the sign on front gate that says
I do not call 911" Everyone entering will be carried out.!.
Kid thought no one was home as both trucks were out of sight. THis is always my worry but I always keep one of my males loose when I am alone here or outside.
YR
by Preston on 02 October 2011 - 20:10
YR, I am not surprised at how your dog responded, and I would not expect less. Why, because I know the heritage your dogs come from and I have had some in the past from the same sources. A fair percentage of these dogs, male or female are
100% man stoppers on their own turf starting right at 8-9 months old. I once bought a dog like this from someone you did business with and this dog was very, very dominant and controlling over our kids. He didn't like it if folks raised their voices and would get between kids that were arguing or fighting. When tested by an experienced dog trainer at my front door and also in my car (opened the door hit me with a rolled up newspaper and then attacked the dog with a whip stick when it bit him). This family pet wouldn't back down and delivered multiple body bites to the gentlemen who "attacked me", agitated him and tried to back him down, the more the agitator rushed him, the harder the dog fought. In those days trainers used the old quilted suits and screen face masks which were bulky and very hot. This dog was usually docile, yet alert, and was simply ferocious when pushed and felt there was a real threat present.
It's hard to acquire these dogs easily anymore, but there are still some great GSD breeeders around that can provide a GSD with balanced temperament, and natural protective ability. One has to carefully select a puppy from these breeders.
100% man stoppers on their own turf starting right at 8-9 months old. I once bought a dog like this from someone you did business with and this dog was very, very dominant and controlling over our kids. He didn't like it if folks raised their voices and would get between kids that were arguing or fighting. When tested by an experienced dog trainer at my front door and also in my car (opened the door hit me with a rolled up newspaper and then attacked the dog with a whip stick when it bit him). This family pet wouldn't back down and delivered multiple body bites to the gentlemen who "attacked me", agitated him and tried to back him down, the more the agitator rushed him, the harder the dog fought. In those days trainers used the old quilted suits and screen face masks which were bulky and very hot. This dog was usually docile, yet alert, and was simply ferocious when pushed and felt there was a real threat present.
It's hard to acquire these dogs easily anymore, but there are still some great GSD breeeders around that can provide a GSD with balanced temperament, and natural protective ability. One has to carefully select a puppy from these breeders.
by Red Sable on 02 October 2011 - 20:10
Your dog sounds like my old dog Preston. I'd love to find another like that.
by Preston on 02 October 2011 - 22:10
Yes, Red Sable, that's the type I love, but not easy to find. Once you've been to the GSD promised land it's hard to settle for less. It is always and honor and a priviledge to have a dog like that.
by Red Sable on 03 October 2011 - 01:10
That is so true. He is one dog I should have cloned, but at the time I didn't realize he was practically one of a kind.
by Koach on 03 October 2011 - 01:10
I believe that the advantage of the same dog being trained vs not trained is that progressive training can raise the dog's threat threshold. Example; a dog may stand his ground and even go into action against a one person house invasion however a group of people coming in at the same time may make the same dog's survival instinct kick in. Dog's can be trained to react positively in various senarios and under great pressure which are confidence builders.
I agree that we do not see as much "territorial dominance" and "social aggression" in quite a few of the sport's bred dogs of today vs the 70's and early 80's. For better or worse the needs of the times dictate what is being bred.
I agree that we do not see as much "territorial dominance" and "social aggression" in quite a few of the sport's bred dogs of today vs the 70's and early 80's. For better or worse the needs of the times dictate what is being bred.
by ggturner on 03 October 2011 - 01:10
I have also had dogs with only obedience training protect me without showing fear. One of them was my now deceased airedale terrier and the other is one of my current gsds.
by olskoolgsds on 03 October 2011 - 01:10
Some misunderstanding of genetics and vs. raising IMO.
A dog is 100% genetics. Can't get around that. What one does to enhance or retard those genetics is the responsibility of the owner/trainer. You can strive to bring out as close to 100% of the dogs genetics, (defense, prey etc.) or you can hinder them by poor upbringing, poor socializing, improper encouragements, and anything else because of the innability of the handler to "read" his dog and fail to understand what makes him work or not work.
On the other hand, an owner can bring out the best in the dog and that starts with recognizing/reading the dogs temperament, what motivates him and how much pressure you can put on a given dog. Each dog is what it was born with and it comes through the bloodlines. A dog will never be better than what it is capable of being. It can only reach the top of its genetic makeup. Most dogs never realize their true potential because we people refuse to learn from them. Everyone from Max on down should still be learning.
A dog is 100% genetics. Can't get around that. What one does to enhance or retard those genetics is the responsibility of the owner/trainer. You can strive to bring out as close to 100% of the dogs genetics, (defense, prey etc.) or you can hinder them by poor upbringing, poor socializing, improper encouragements, and anything else because of the innability of the handler to "read" his dog and fail to understand what makes him work or not work.
On the other hand, an owner can bring out the best in the dog and that starts with recognizing/reading the dogs temperament, what motivates him and how much pressure you can put on a given dog. Each dog is what it was born with and it comes through the bloodlines. A dog will never be better than what it is capable of being. It can only reach the top of its genetic makeup. Most dogs never realize their true potential because we people refuse to learn from them. Everyone from Max on down should still be learning.
by destiny4u on 12 October 2011 - 22:10
my friends cattle dog bit the living crap out of a tress passers butt and legs the cattle dog is normally aloof he wasnt bred for it but god he made a mess out of the man he was also kicked a repeadly but it didnt phase this dog at all which is scary
is a wl still considered well bred if it doesnt have the courage and aggression to bite for real if its owner is in trouble? Is it because of the high amount of WL just being sport/prey monsters? I dont know what people are considering well bred but if people consider breeding for shutzund agility and pets well bred ? If the breeder isnt breeding for police personal protection carefully and are just sport points breeders idk
would czech dogs fall under this also? Or is there success rate much higher?
is a wl still considered well bred if it doesnt have the courage and aggression to bite for real if its owner is in trouble? Is it because of the high amount of WL just being sport/prey monsters? I dont know what people are considering well bred but if people consider breeding for shutzund agility and pets well bred ? If the breeder isnt breeding for police personal protection carefully and are just sport points breeders idk
would czech dogs fall under this also? Or is there success rate much higher?
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