GSD breeder arrested in CT - Page 8

Workingdogz wrote:
Dog1,
You should try to remove your personal/professional relationship with this breeder from the equation.
You owned/co-owned the sire to the first dog she had publicized legal issues with, "Drago".
You have bred your males to her bitches, more than once I believe, so you may have trouble seeing this objectivly.


Thank you for stating that and clearing up some of my confusion. 

Jim


 

I don't like singleling out individuals but I need clarification, not an argument or starting a new topic on bad cops............

Blitzen, you stated "A warrant is no guarantee that the evidence was obtained legally and does not necessarily mean the judge will not throw it out."

I have nothing against you and I don't know the DM person but when I read that statement and the one of "....an AR organization watching how this developes." It appears that your thoughts are on/for DM's side? I could be misreading though? Without reading the "verbiage" of the warrant we, any of us do not know what is in it. But I would be safe to say the "evidence" would be a combination of "formal" complaints and possibly/probably some surveillance with photographs and statements. You're first statement states two things;   1. Evidence being obtained legally and 2. .......the judge throwing it out.  My thoughts on this is corruption, dishonesty, malfeasance and the likes, yes, remotely possible. However, highly unlikely. This isn't a mob case where judges, politicians, and elected officials are bought. For the judge to sign off on the warrant the "evidence" had to be pretty tight. And when you state ..... mean the judge will not throw it out? Are you saying the judge who signed the warrant or the judge who will reside over the case? If the later, most judges professionally "acknowledge" the actions of the previous judges that stemmed their case(s). Meaning he/she usually won't/don't step on the other judge's toes.

DM's previous actions, and I am not aware of them, but they are criminal. She has already "established" a pattern in her life, personally and professionally. And with records, evidence present concerning those cases she is not guilty automatically, but like I said a pattern has been established. Any AR can watch how this developes, (and maybe I'm not fully understanding your comments?) but one has nothing to do with the other. DM allegedly did something wrong, illegal. Information, complaints, documentation and evidence was put together. Put forth for a Judge to look over and see if their was enough evidence to sign a "Search  Warrant". We don't know the wording of that document so let's stay focused on the subject at hand. And you stated something to the effect of " I'd like to know what the police said before entering?" What is that? (let's not say we have been watching too many movies and we're now looking for technicalities?) But anyways... what was the objective of that comment? Not sure. They probably stated something to the effect of "We have a Search Warrant, step aside. Officer, stay with her" or something along those lines.

Like I said I have no idea who DM is and by some of the statements or comments from others it appears some people do. And if some are letting their personal feelings or aquaitance get the best of them then look at the bigger picture, the dogs. If this was a first time offense then maybe I could understand some that side with her but DM has already had trouble along the same lines previously.

i have wire crates for my (6) dogs  - they eat in them (prevents fights) and sleep in the them until they're house trained.
the crates do not have "bedding" because the dogs prefer not to use it, they will move it out of the way and lay on the plastic pan to keep cooler.
the crates do not have water pails becasue the dogs are not in the crates for more then a 2 hours at a time (except for overnight).
i have a litter of puppies in the office and eventhough i clean their area 3 or 4 times a day, my house smells of puppy poop and piss....
i have one newly imported dog that is thin.......and with long nails........(each takes weeks to fix).

Sitasmom, you wrote above then deleted your last line, which I had already copied:

this article worries me! 

You wrote previously:

 I don't have a kennel as our dogs live in our home as members of our family (Ruff/Lessy puppies were born in my bedroom closet). 

If you do not have a kennel and whelp litters in your bedroom closet, and your house smells of poop and piss than maybe you have a reason to be worried.  It is fascinating how some breeders are only concerned for themselves and not the welfare of the dogs in question.   

Just saying..............................


PS, why edit the content of your post?  Why delete the comment that "this article worries me?"  Changing the content of your post can make readers misunderstand responses to your posts. 


    It is fascinating h

I was wondering??? Running back and forth trying to find it. Thought I might have missed it on another thread....

Slamdunc, your questions above *are* facetious, right?

Sitasmom, you would do well to remember the credo of the judge from 'The People's Court':  "Say it/forget it; Write it/regret it".  Deletion by editing doesn't necessarily mean the words have disappeared for all time...

That aside, there's a huge difference between the odor of 'fresh' dog urine and feces, which disappears as soon as the source of the scent is removed from the scene and the soiled surface is cleaned and deodorized, and that of old, stale residual urine and feces that were not adequately cleaned up, and I'd expect that as an experienced dog owner you're quite aware of that.  If your house presently smells like the former, I doubt you'd have any problems; if it's the latter, however, then yes, you very well may find yourself in hot water--especially if you have children in your home. 

It never ceases to amaze me how many dog fanciers (this runs the gamut from Schutzhund to AKC show ppl) are not nor ever have been in compliance with their city/county animal control ordinances.

It's pretty obvious that you cannot follow *each* and every little rule they have, I'm talking basics, like current Rabies and current dog license/kennel license etc.
In my opinion, if you are willing to take short cuts and skirt the law for a basic requirement to dog ownership in your area, it is pretty easy to continue to break rules.

How many "breeders" or "trainers" or even owners would crap their pants if AC showed up with a camera and a clipboard?

As for smells associated with raising a litter, if proper sanitation is practiced, the smell will dissapate almost immediately after a proper cleaning/sanitizing. If it doesn't? well, then you very well might be a filthy pig and AC should come visit.

There is a tremendous difference between crating a dog while you are at work etc, and a dog LIVING in a crate. When you have SO many dogs you must "stack" your crates, that might be a sign. If your house has a "long term and/or overwhelming stench of urines and feces", thats a sign!

I get sick and tired of people not wanting to pay a measely $30.00 for a dog tag to their city/township/county when I do it yearly, 2 intact dogs @ $35.00 each plus proof of current rabies. If I cannot afford that, I should not have a dog(s). 

If you are operating any type of a kennel illegally in your residential limits, you deserve to be caught and fined heavily.

Many years back our POS neighbor (the same one who called AC mega times anonymously on us) made a fuss because we had 3 dogs, one was a youngster we fostered for rescue. AC told us nope, we needed multipet permit. We read the rules for a MPP and decided we did not want to comply with being subject to their right to inspect us at any time etc, so we simply returned the pup to the rescue and sponsored him for 4 weeks at a boarding kennel until another foster could be found.

Now, roll ahead several years. After all his whining, pissing and moaning, it came back to bite him in the ass, HARD.  AC has been doing "pro-active patrols" in neighborhoods as a source of income enhancement for the city. They are going door to door, knocking and listening for dogs barking, peering into yards for dog crap, looking at window sills for cats-yes CATS are required to be licensed in our city! If they hear barking, they already have the list of WHO has licensed dogs in hand to compare, well, people are getting fined BIG! POS shit neighbor got nailed. 2 dogs, one intact, 1 cat. NO current rabies on ANY pet. Ouch!
By the way, AC is not stupid, they WILL ask your neighbors about how many dogs you have etc. How long you have had them etc etc.

Do things right, and you generally will not have a problem with AC. Take shortcuts, you will! and you should IMO

alboe,you obviously do not know me. I m not on DM's "side" I am on the side of the dogs. For the last 2 months I have been pretty closely involved in a bust of almost 200 dogs of a different breed. The evidence may be thrown out and the perp will walk due to a technicality - illegally obtained evidence.

Don't kid yourself into thinking that evidence is legally obtained just because there is a warrant. There are many reasons it can be thrown out at the judge's descretion. What did the officers say before they entered the house can be one reason. Do you think the same judge who signed the warrant is presiding over the hearings? Not.

Judges disagree all the time and invalidate other's actions. There is normally nothing sinister involved, it's a matter of personal interpretation of the evidence and the way it was obtained. Most judges are very much aware of not ruling in favor of anything that could be interpreted as a violation of one's civil rights. IF the warrant was not properly executed, the evidence will be thrown out. Judges issue warrants based on probable cause like neighbors complaining about noise. The evidence is NOT what others have said about DM, the evidence is the dogs, the condition they were in when confiscated, and the condition of their environment. I suspect the PD took a video and will offer that into evidence. The condition of the dogs will be attested to by expert witnesses like vets. If they fail to establish cruelty/abuse, charges will be dismissed.

. 

Agree, workingdogz.

In regards to Blitzens post, many "dog" people (and we are "guilty" ourselves at times) practice a watered down version of practicing veterinary medicine without a license. We will tend to a "hot spot" or something similar for a few days ourselves if possible before making a trip to the vet, but if after 3 days the minor condition shows no signs of improvment, we make the trip. Sometimes we will call our vet to simply have them make a note on our dogs record that we have alerted them to an injury/condition. Where we live, you can be nailed for not seeking medical treatment for your pet.

Several years back we drove to IN to pick up a dog we purchased. The dog was dropped off with a friend in IN for 2 days as shipping was too difficult due to heat. We drove out to pick up this dog, and our friend who had kept the dog had forwarned us. The dog was really thin he said (you know, the "working dog lean" that people like to say about an emaciated dog). This dog was beyond thin, the dog was so skinny it had NO muscle tone, count the spine vertebrae/hip bones, was basically bones covered by hair. We actually took the dog to a Banfield clinic before making the trip home, as we wanted the current condition documented in the event we were stopped on the way home for whatever reason and they then laid eyes on the dog. Once we got home, we took the dog to our vet right away and again documented the current condition and date of possession on our records. If we didn't "cover our asses" like that, had someone called on AC at that point,we may very well have been facing charges.

Maybe it's time people started taking a good hard look at people involved in the dog industry, and the manner in which they keep dogs they are breeding, showing or brokering. These are living breathing creatures, yes, even the "tough, hard ass" ones. They all deserve a standard of care, and that care does not include living in crate because someone wants to dodge AC.

The issue with toenails seems to be one mentioned a few times in this thread. Do most people realize that a dog with exceptionally overgrown nails is likey in physical pain? when the nails get too long, the foot then splays because the toes are "bent" in an unnatural position. This unnatural position then actually affects the entire structure of the dog, the shoulders/back will be forced into a different alignment etc. Ask any chiropractor. Hell, ask a horse shoer about angles and overgrown hooves on a horse, they will confirm.  So overgrown nails are NOT just a cosmetic issue.

This whole thread seems to have brought out some defensiveness and concerns with people that house/keep multiple dogs, maybe that should be telling you people something.

My only concern will ever be the animals, they rely on us for everything.

Do it the right way, and operate within the confines of the law, and you should have no concerns!
Take shortcuts and try to fly under the radar? then maybe you better worry about every time the phone rings or there is a knock on the door...

edited to add:
don't get angry with AC because dogs are seized, if the accused was operating within the confines of the law, AC won't/can't seize.