Opinion on Schutzhund prospect.. - Page 3

Thank you Clee. Yes I know not to baby him, I just dont know how to go about encouraging him without pretty much babying him..if that makes sense.

Ladies and gentlemen...let me interject here and state something that I repeat daily to people I work with and I mentioned in here last night as well in another thread. ALL the love, care, understanding and patience in the world will NOT and CANNOT change genetics. A dog either has it or it does not, end of. If it has it, it can be developed and brought out, if it does not, all you will do is frustrate and question yourself.
While the young lady asking this question is indeed young and may not have much experience, there is nothing wrong with "washing" a dog out of a program. Having said that, I will also add that when choosing a new candidate, either have someone with a lot of experience guide you or deal with a breeder you trust implicitly. Choose a dog for the particular sport/discipline you want to do and realize that show and real working dogs often dont mix.

While I understand and agree with your point, I also know many people used genetics as the easy out for their own shortcomings and willingness to put the effort in. Now my opinion is that one of the biggest mistakes people make is to negatively label a dog and then train to that label... many people don't want to take any responsibility for their part in things gone wrong.

Clee 27, that is another thread and it has to do with trainers who may not actually be TRAINERS. Why would anyone spend good money on a candidate that has the genetic potential to reach the Zenith of its discipline is something I will never understand. While I have not seen happen, I believe that it does exist, but, its the pinnacle of stupidity to waste a genetically great dog like that.
Again, I believe that is another issue for another thread, but, I understand what you are saying, just not why anyone would do it.

Hired Dog, Thank you.

Genetically, I believe he has it. I did alot of reasearch in finding him and went to a breeder that helped me find exactly what I wanted. I have just hit a brick wall that I do not know how to get over and move forward with him. He does have insecurities, that I am willing to work with and try and build his confidence. I will go to different trainers and utilize the differing opinions and methods in all, and find something that works for him. I was on here to gather a broader range of advice.

So thank you to those that understand and provided me with good information :)

"The corollary to the development of a puppy's attachment to its surroundings is its detachment from its parent(s). "

This quote is from:  Sensory, Emotional and Social Development of the Young Dog, by Dr. Joël Dehasse, Behaviorist Veterinarian, Version 1.1 -6 Feb. 97      http://www.nwk9.com/dehasse_pupdev.htm





Seven weeks of age is, in truth, too young to remove a pup from it's littermates unless there are some sort of extenuating circumstances--you know, there's a reason why it is not legal to ship puppies under 8 weeks of age. Ideally, pups should remain with their littermates until they are at least 9 weeks of age--those extra two weeks can make a world of difference in the character development of an individual dog when you consider that the neurosystem of puppies remains a work in progress for weeks after their birth...

Hexe, with all due respect to your post, it is dead wrong. Beyond weaning the pups, the dam has NOTHING to offer them that is positive, keeping the litter together though has MANY negatives that will come back to haunt us later in life.
6-12 weeks is THE single most crucial socialization period in a dog's entire life. What it will learn/be exposed to then, will affect it for ever.
This is THE time to have that puppy bonded to its new owner and exposed to EVERYTHING it will have to deal with in this world. Leaving the pups together will teach them how to be bullies or submissive, depending on their genetic make up. One will bully the others around and they will learn to fear and react aggressively towards other dogs when they grow and the bully will just think that he is IT...not a good idea.
Also, this "bite Inhibition" lunacy is not something that happens while the pups are with the litter, its the handler's job to curb it or bring it out, plus, who wants bite inhibition on a sporting/working dog candidate?
The pups I have always gotten are 6 weeks or age, max, that way I can instill in them what I want, the behaviors I want to see, bring out drives they will need later in life. By the time they are 12 weeks old, they understand basic obedience, are afraid of nothing environmentally, their prey drive is through the roof and are well on their way to becoming serious working dogs.

I guess I don't really understand the problem, you state the following:

he has shown some incredible drive, overall confidence and independance, and his conformation is definitely what I'm looking for. Have had him at club a few times and his drive work/bite work is coming along, and he shows great potential. His obedience is awesome, have done bare minimal tracking with him (have gotten advice from many show breeders to start tracking once they know what to do in a showring so they dont have their nose to the ground)

If you aren't having a problem with his training then why are you so upset that the dog wants to be with you? What you see as "obsessed" most people see as bond. I personally think it is normal to have a dog follow me around and want to know what I am doing. My shepherds do it all the time. They observe what I am doing and sometimes they even mimic what I am doing. I get a kick out of it and it is one of the reasons why I love the breed so much. When I get ready in the morning they are in the bathroom, then the kitchen, etc. They are at my feet sleeping right now. The breed typically builds a strong bond with an owner/handler and wants to be with them. GSD are extremely pack oriented animals and when they are separated from their pack it isn't natural to them. It is little wonder it causes him stress and he is overly interested in you, in his world he never knows when he is going to get to spend time with you. If this isn't a behavior you are willing to live with I would suggest finding the dog a new home. This is something that is hardwired in a GSD and you would have better luck teaching him to fly then to try and teach him that he only needs himself. My best advise to you would be to find this dog a home where he can have the family/pack he wants and you can co-own this dog and train him and use him as a stud as you like.

I am so confused by your post. You really sound all over the board. Are you trying to describe separation anxiety? Is your dog fearful? Maybe it is because you are having a hard time putting into words exactly what it is you don't like about his behavior. How much socializing did you do with this puppy? Did you take him everywhere, go everywhere publicly dogs are allowed, get him around children, elderly, other dogs (lots of other dogs), other animals, wheelchairs, loud noises, fireworks, etc.? Locking a dog in a kennel except for an occasional walk in the park or trip to the pet store is the worst thing you can do for a dog that isn't confident. You say that his Mother behaved the same way so this sounds genetic and is going to take a LOT of work to overcome. Probably not the best dog for breeding.

As far as being "obsessed" with your other dog, this puppy is 8 months old. This is the time where they are working on securing their rank in the pack. It may be that he sees your other dog as having the highest "rank" in your dog pack so it would be natural for him to want to spend time with her. He may see this as his future mate. Also, alpha dogs tend to not pay attention lower ranking dogs so ignoring him probably isn't going to make you "problem" go away.

Since you seem to like to discard dogs that aren't exactly what you want at the time I would be more than happy to take this dog off your hands. He sounds perfect to me and I would take him in a heartbeat. I think he would be very happy here at my feet.

he sounds like he is very insecure right now - hopefully as he matures he will gain more confidence. I would make sure that you are not inadvertently praising his insecurity - a common mistake.  Perhaps since this happens at home, you need to have a qualified trainer come there to observe him and suggest some strategies to help him. And it sounds to me as though he is begging for something to do - so I personally would work him more in tracking and obedience - all over motivational methods of course. Give his brain something constuctive to do. 

 That said, sorry, but it is true that some of this may very well  be genetic - unfortunately no matter how careful the breeding, there is confidence lacking in a lot of the high lines these days - and even in some so called working lines - a lot of people are mistaking hectic and/or nervy behaviors for drive. Further, even if the parents of your pup were quite capable in their work, doesn't mean they can produce those traits - may have been a combination of great training and experienced handling.

And by the way, I have been breeding GSDs for over 27 years, started in high lines, changed to working lines as high lines began to lose some of their desire for real work. That said, I don't believe in breeding workiing lines that are butt ugly and extremely lacking in conformation either - these extremes are the reason the GSD is in trouble now genetically.  

well your pup does sound very  insecure, he also sounds very excited when he sees you, it sounds to me he loves you. i would say to heavly socialize him.
the fear he shows at the pet store is from not being socialize.
i had a male pup that was scared of eveything and i  socialize him very well his first year, he turned out fine and is a very stable comforident boy now.
if you want him to detach from you a little bit i would say to send him off to a friend  or boarding kennel for a few weeks so he can gets use to other people. if he has the drive you say he may need to work some of it off, with some of the issues.
how much time do you give him on burning off his energy and drive?