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by Blitzen on 30 March 2012 - 23:03
Me thinks someone just got BUSTED!!!!
by Blitzen on 30 March 2012 - 23:03
Live4
by Von Savitch K9 on 31 March 2012 - 00:03
None of you get it no wonder things are the way are.
by Red Sable on 31 March 2012 - 00:03
Anyone notice the word CALM in the Standard concerning character of a GSD?
Where did the calm GSD go? Just wondering. And what/who is responsible for it's disappearance?
As for the rest, we've been through this all before and I've read previous posts by many of you, where you have agreed with many of the points Joseph is making.
The showring is to blame for many of the issues, and IMO Schutzhund and the pursuit of high drives is to blame for the missing CALM factor.
We all (me included) pick out the parts of the Standard we agree with and forget about the rest of it. I'd venture to say all of us, would like to change at least one thing in the Standard to suit our personal tastes of what a GSD should be.
Mine would be the tight coat.
Where did the calm GSD go? Just wondering. And what/who is responsible for it's disappearance?
As for the rest, we've been through this all before and I've read previous posts by many of you, where you have agreed with many of the points Joseph is making.
The showring is to blame for many of the issues, and IMO Schutzhund and the pursuit of high drives is to blame for the missing CALM factor.
We all (me included) pick out the parts of the Standard we agree with and forget about the rest of it. I'd venture to say all of us, would like to change at least one thing in the Standard to suit our personal tastes of what a GSD should be.
Mine would be the tight coat.
by live4schutzhund on 31 March 2012 - 01:03
Blitzen - yup i got busted.
Isendgard, I admire your effective use of words.
Savitch...I dunno dude. If I were you, to protect your kennel and your potential future clients you might want to separate your web visibility if your going to post on this board. If you dont know what I am talking about then I cant help you, and you shouldnt be in business of any kind, for yourself anyway. If you have the least bit of loyalty or obligation to what employees you may have, disconnect your kennel from your friggen profile you use to post..
Red Sable- Like very much this statement you made for its intelligent truth.
"We all (me included) pick out the parts of the Standard we agree with and forget about the rest of it. I'd venture to say all of us, would like to change at least one thing in the Standard to suit our personal tastes of what a GSD should be."
It has been many years since I really got into these discussions. Age and priorities I guess. In it now though, fun times.
Isendgard, I admire your effective use of words.
Savitch...I dunno dude. If I were you, to protect your kennel and your potential future clients you might want to separate your web visibility if your going to post on this board. If you dont know what I am talking about then I cant help you, and you shouldnt be in business of any kind, for yourself anyway. If you have the least bit of loyalty or obligation to what employees you may have, disconnect your kennel from your friggen profile you use to post..
Red Sable- Like very much this statement you made for its intelligent truth.
"We all (me included) pick out the parts of the Standard we agree with and forget about the rest of it. I'd venture to say all of us, would like to change at least one thing in the Standard to suit our personal tastes of what a GSD should be."
It has been many years since I really got into these discussions. Age and priorities I guess. In it now though, fun times.
by joanro on 31 March 2012 - 01:03
RS, good questions. You could have a whole new thread/debate on where did the "calm" go? The various disciplines mold the breed. The purpose of the show ring and schH have become distorted and are a detriment to the breed instead of a positive influence as originally intended. That's why many breeders are not placing as much emphases on putting schH titles on their dogs (working dogs), it's just not an accurate barometer of the quality of the dog anymore. The show ring has lost it's validity to many as well, just look at what the judges have created breed wide through their choices. It's wiser to critique your own dog than to have some breed judge tell you your working dog doesn't have enough rear angulation, or steep enough croup.
by live4schutzhund on 31 March 2012 - 01:03
joanro-
I dunno. Agree and disagree. Lets look at it from the point of view of making sound decisions based on data, less reactive with blanket statements.
Schutzhund is a proven test. Scoring high in trials probably as political for WL people as placing best in show for SL people. I would not discount schutzhund nor opinions of sv judges overall though. Maybe if many people say a dog is not fit for schutzhund, it isn't. Maybe if many judges say your dog is well outside the standard, it is.
Your last sentence, disagree completely.
"It's wiser to critique your own dog than to have some breed judge tell you your working dog doesn't have enough rear angulation, or steep enough croup."
I talk about it here.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/forum.read?mnr=175156&pagen=8#175840
Your post seems so nice, please don't think I am attacking you or anything, simply disagree.
I dunno. Agree and disagree. Lets look at it from the point of view of making sound decisions based on data, less reactive with blanket statements.
Schutzhund is a proven test. Scoring high in trials probably as political for WL people as placing best in show for SL people. I would not discount schutzhund nor opinions of sv judges overall though. Maybe if many people say a dog is not fit for schutzhund, it isn't. Maybe if many judges say your dog is well outside the standard, it is.
Your last sentence, disagree completely.
"It's wiser to critique your own dog than to have some breed judge tell you your working dog doesn't have enough rear angulation, or steep enough croup."
I talk about it here.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/forum.read?mnr=175156&pagen=8#175840
Your post seems so nice, please don't think I am attacking you or anything, simply disagree.
by Blitzen on 31 March 2012 - 02:03
Live4, I didn't mean YOU!!! 
Your posts are hilarious.
Your posts are hilarious.by Blitzen on 31 March 2012 - 02:03
Savitch, I just have to ask - why are you promoting a dog with grand mal seizures as a potential stud dog?
by joanro on 31 March 2012 - 02:03
Thank you, live4. I saw your post earlier, and I disagree with your breeder friend making the blanket statement on what attracts people to breeding wd. I don't know where he is, what country, but the people I know who breed wd aren't doing it because it's cheap or for an alternative to an unaffordable more expensive line, such as show. They do it because it's their choice, they truly love them, have "passion" for the working line and invest heart and soul into it. If it was left up to breeding WLs in accordance to dog show judging, the line would have the same structural problems seen in the SL at a much higher rate of occurrence than already present. Not to down play the importance of being able to honestly and accurately evaluate a dog's structure, but it is not rocket science. I also don't want to inadvertently support your breeder friend's statement that the WL attract people who think they know it all. Almost anyone, after fifty years making a living in varying capacities with dogs can figure out how to apply a breed standard when evaluating a dog's structure. I trust the experienced "dog man" a thousand times more than I would a breed judge considering the mess the breed judges have perpetrated over the last couple decades.
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