Hock walker? - Page 29

My ideal GSD first and foremost is a dog that can traverse any environment with confidence and bomb-proof nerves regarless of what they encounter.  I like hard dogs, that posses a high level of fight, prey and hunt drive, coupled with a strong desire to work. A high degree of intellegence with the ability to learn and retain what is being taught.  My ideal GSD (both male & female) are on the smaller end of the standard, I find these dogs are far more agile and athletic and I believe their smaller size will contribute to a longer working career. Color isn't important as long as it is correct. The dog should have moderate angulation, with a compact, dry structure. The dog should not only look solid, it should be solid in every aspect of it's movement.


 It wont' come as a suprise my goal is to breed working dogs. My philosophy on breeding is fairly simple (not that producing the perfect dog is), to start there are two things I won't compromise on when selecting dogs for breeding or for future breeding.

 I will not make any exceptions after giving a dog or pup a fair adjustment period if they display any signs of fear or shyness in situations such as crowds, traffic, strange surfaces, dark buildings to name a few or if a dog has any sensitivity to sounds like gunfire, thunder or any other noises for that matter. This means truly challanging the dog with new situations, not a set routine the dog or pup will get used to and honestly evaluating the dogs performance. I think using this criteria alone would wash many dogs currently being used for breeding.

 IMO the only way to achieve my goal is to start will solid stock and try to make small improvements in subsequent generations, rather than trying to breed dogs that are severly deficient to begin with. This also means working the dogs and constantly evaluating them. Breeders should be their own worst critic when it comes to selecting dogs from their own program and should have the balls to wash a dog regardless of the amount of time spent raising and training them.

 Time will tell, but I believe I'm off to a good start. 

Great goals, Felloffher. Good luck with your breeding program. I'm with you as far as proofing dogs prior to using them for breeding. I try to do that too in my own way.

Vonissk,

 You have to realize your golden middle is only seen from the perspective of people in your camp. You've taken a working line and altered it's confirmation to suit the needs of the AKC show ring. Let's be honest, your ASL could have been bred to my wife's Min Pin and it would have improved working ability. You really haven't achieved anything as significant as you would like us to believe. It's all smoke and mirrors, a cheap sales pitch in an attempt to lure buyer your way. Hopefully most educated buyers can see through the BS.

Blitzen,

 I like what I'm seeing so far, but I will measure success based on what I produce in the next couple of generations. 

Felloffher, I have to take exception with your analysis of Vonissk and her goals. I know her to be a very honest and ethical person who would never "sales pitch" anyone to buy one of her dogs. When she breeds, she breeds for herself and all other puppies are already spoken for.  

Her goals may not be your goals, but it's really not fair to suggest that her motives are less than noble because she breeds for a dog that can work in different venues and compete in the show ring.  I do the same thing and it's probably not any easier than training a competitive sport dog. 

Most show line breeders are avoiding introducing work blood into their programs because of the very small market for resultant puppies and because it will take time to get back lost type, therefore I don't think Vonissk is after sales when she does mix her show with work blood, I personally find her courageous and honest in her goals.
I have seen a dog bred by Fellofher in a recent thread, very nice in conformation and shows very good drives and bite work, if all what he breeds are near to the conformation of that dog, I personally appreciate what he's producing.
I think all what Fellofher says about temperament, drives and work ability is the truth, only thing he jumps over the conformation, " moderate angulations", what is that term?
Angulations are set and defined and are part of what GSD should be like, extremes in drives and extremes in angulations is not what the standard calls for, therefore I see Vonissk is closer to the standard than others and her golden middle is what versatile means. I think it was (Gustav) but pardon me if I am mistaken, who once said that from a good breeding there will be some puppies good as pets, some good for police, some for SAR etc.
Is a breeding where most puppies are excellent for sport a good breeding!!!!! just wondering

Ibrahim

It's one thing to not like and/or to disagree with breeding a specific line or type of GSD, but to make it a personal attack on the ethics of a person one has never even met is just wrong.  Will we ever get over thinking on this board that it's our way or the highway? 

Kind of reminds you of another thread on this section of the board, doesn't it, Blitzen? When I saw Fell's post, bashing Vonisk's choice, it really upset me. I think I'm done with this board for awhile, but before I go, I have to take exception to Fell's sarcastic comment that breeding a miniature pinscher to an ASL would improve the temperament.

I saw a wonderful documentary on Dogs With Jobs last night, about a GSd who was trained to do SAR. His handler is a woman, who's no longer young. She looked like she was pushing 60. They worked quakes in both Mexico and Turkey, and the dog, Petro, had live finds in both quakes, as well as indicating the location of numerous bodies. In Mexico, he kept insisting there was someone alive down there, even 10 days after the quake. His handler listened to him, and they eventually found two women, still alive, buried in the rubble.

So, what's so interesting about that? Just a good GSD doing his job, right?

Well, yes, except Petro is obviously an American show line.

Take the goddamn blinders off, will you?  You claim to like working dogs, but I'm quite sure you wouldn't even give this one a second glance!

It kinda reminds me of many posts on this board, Sunsilver. The bullying here really gets old fast. I've known Vonissk personally for quite a while now and if others knew things about her I know, they would be ashamed to see her ethics called into question. It's never enough to just say - I don't like GSL's, ASL's because.........and list some factual information for discussion. It always has to lead to this. I won't even talk about my dog here very often due to her pedigree although she has German and AKC titles and is in training for more. I know I'm not the only member here who feels that way.