Interesting SL/WL cross. What do youo like or dislike about the cross - Page 2

Again, I will say this, WL  dogs and SL dogs tend to be very different these days.  VERY.  In the F1 generation the results are often dogs with drive but (as one person I know said) ther is "nothing behind it."  They seem to get the WL drive but the SL lack of nerve and courage.  It IS genetic. 

Now.. if you have a ton of money and homes for all the puppies, you could take the F1 generation and breed back on WL and then again on the F2 generation.. but now you have probably gone back into the dogs looking and working like WL dogs and MAYBE.. just MAYBE you will get the conformation to come forward but probably not. 

To breed dogs one thing you need to be is a very very sharp culler.  If you are breeding SL dogs, then you need to cull anything and everything that has any show of a lack of nerve and courage and still be careful about conformation.   If you are breeding WL dogs you need to cull everything that is weak in conformation and those that lack G.O.  Breeding dogs means a LOT more culling than keeping!!  Culling BTW means selling to pet homes and not breeding weak dogs. 

The dogs that are being used for breeding could easily be halved today and the breed would benefit.  JMO.  No one need agree. 

I must say that I don't own either of the dogs in this breeding.  I'm quite familiar with the female and I find her to be pretty much everything you'd (or I would) want in a GSD.  The male I'm not personally familiar with, but on paper he looks quite well and I've seen videos of him at work.  Would he have been my choice, it would be hard to say as I see a lot of dogs with good protection from the Vom Arlett kennels.  My taste in male conformation runs more to the Odin, Ursus type dog and for this kind of breeding I'd have gone with VA2 Ork vom der Werther Muhle who is in Houston as a safer/mre tested option, but there's a lot to like in this breeding. 

As far as his Slovak breed survey is concerned, I'm not privy to that information, but from what I understand, he's sired a couple of litters and someone who's worked dogs from them said that they have proper aggression and excellent drives.

BTW, Darius is a fine looking dog, at least what little can be seen on his PDB picture.  He's also a product of what can happen when good quality dogs are used on both sides of these WL/SL crosses.  Congratulations on a fine breeding.  Good conformation and good working and social temperament is what all breeders should be aiming for.


Bob:
I posted the videos I saw above. I did not say "many good dogs", but "In this case, we have a very good male with very good working dogs in his pedigree and VA conformation" I like that Leon has Basko vom Deninghauserpark, Esko vom Danishen Hoff and Timo vom Berrekasten in his pedigree.  On paper, he should be quite nice and pass on some excellent traits.  On the other hand, the dam is of solid conformation and produces very nice pups with very good drives. 

I have not personally seen Leon's offspring, but I've been told that he produces good temperament and drives by someone who's worked his pups from  several dams.

IMPO, I'd think that the breeding is aimed at a "Universal Sieger" type dog.  Fairly high placing in both conformation and work. 

The video was disturbing.  I don't like to write dogs off (or put them on a pedestal) based on videos but....I'd probably have to see several DAYS worth of outstanding work from the dog to erase that.

The female is an extremely nice dog of lines that are getting more rare to find.  she should have been bred to something that would compliment this.  Say a linebreeding on Yoschy......

This dog isn't breed worthy.

Charlie319,
Perhaps you should go back and find the thread on show lines that produce good work? Timo and Esko are not among the ones on that list. I see Quartz by Amigo in the back, but that is the only good working show lines I see in the sire's pedigree. Could be wrong, as I don't know everything about every dog, but the ones mentioned I know to be true.
I love the dam's pedigree!! But she needs A LOT of compensation in the conformation department. I don't think the short coat, light bone and average angulation of the sire will be enough to compensate.
BUT who knows, maybe a pup or 2 will come up with all the good stuff! Good luck!
Debby

Look at this SL boy,he is a great example of SL dog with great working drives and really strong nerves.I am a WL person but this boy has only one mistake - and that is that he isn´t mine,LOL.I would take him anyday. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=598541  , here are some videos of him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yp5LMDTWbM&feature=relmfu , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3maBWFxCzh4&feature=relmfu ,he is 9 months old in the videos,see how much pressure he can handle.

the female shows 21 progeny.....she is almost 10 yrs. old....probably last breeding:-)

@cage, agree that darth seems to have stable nerves and can handle pressure, but far too equipment oriented to suit me.  this may be because of his training, but i would want to be sure of that first and be certain that the equipment is not a safe zone for him when finding that the man is too much of a threat.....know what i mean?
pjp

@charlie,  i just wanted to make sure you undersdtood that the link i posted was not a breeding i did.....it is one that i like very much.  the dogs are owned by kandi jacopino and dee clark. 

Judron, yea this could be her last.   The last breeding out of her was this 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/ger
man_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=706200

From one of very few Yoschy Grandsons in the country.  It was a 3-4 on Yoschy......Should have repeated that breading