Interesting SL/WL cross. What do youo like or dislike about the cross - Page 8

ha... can't see a thing.

Gustav if you owner edit it, it shows. Interesting.

Same story different day, month and year it seems like.   Production over Performance without impedeing temperment.....give it a thought.   You dont have to agree just allow other views.    To many GSD's have zero nerve huge prey,  some nerve to much defense, blah blah blah.    

this may be a very interesting lesson in genetics for all of us.  some of us have said many times that the dam contributes more than 50% of the genetics of
the pups.  i believe this to be especially true of character,  drives & nerve strength.  physical attributes are a mixed bag:  maybe more of the sire; maybe more
of the dam or maybe a hodgepodge of the litter's linebreeding. who knows?   time will tell on this one.
pjp

GSDs of weak nerves,low drives,lack of confidence or bad health are the ones that should be excluded from the breeding just like the ones that won´t stand the pressure from the decoy. 8 or 9 years ago SUCHNO started to record all the BSTs organized by SUCHNO,the very first year almost 25 percent of the dogs failed both SL and WL.By that time,the percentage of those that didn´t pass was much lower.Since then a lot of breeders realized they must be more picky.These day a lot of the dogs at BSTs are of a very good quality - drives,courage,health.Almost nobody keeps a dog that has C hips or elbows for breeding.Usually if someone keeps a dog with C hips it must be a dog of a very very high quality.

Not hijacking but I read a post above that someone was looking to get a Arlett pup. They look like that have a great program. I would feel very fortunate to purchase one their pups in the future. I'm rather starstruck with those folks.

@cage
I agree GSD's with weak nerves, lack of confidence or bad health should be excluded from breeding as I'm sure everyone else does too so what you’re saying here isn't exactly earth shattering.  But your stance here continues to be a little confusing.  In the case of Leon for example you pretty much defended the original owners and Eurosport in their handling of Leon when in reality, according to your statements; you don't really believe Leon should have been sold as breed worthy.  I mean if you’re going to take that stance, you must admit than the original owners pretty much sold Leon under false pretenses when in fact they should have probably retired him as a pet rather than selling him as a breeding prospect.  Once again, you can't have it both ways.  Either Leon wasn't trained properly or he is not breed worthy.  Either way, don't you agree the original owners should be held accountable on some level for not taking the appropriate actions instead of selling him as a breeding prospect if indeed they felt he was a weak nerved dog or lacked confidence?
 
I personally believe Leon simply wasn't trained properly as this is more often the case when a working line trainer tries to cross-over and work a show-line dog but that’s just a hunch based on my own personal experiences and my familiarity with Leon's stellar genetics.  However, I find it interesting after all these years the GSD community as a whole is just now being shown this less than stellar video of a prior performance that raises serious questions about a dog’s temperament.  Seems to me the original owners have pulled the wool over the eyes of the entire GSD community in the handling of Leon.  In other words, if they are so honest and forthright, how come we are just now seeing this kind of video of Leon five years after the fact?  In my opinion, this video should have been advertised as well if they truly had the betterment of the breed in mind.  And if they want to blame his performance on his weak nerves or lack of courage, why would they even think of selling him as a breeding prospect and advertise him as such?  It makes no sense using your logic.

For me, this just appears to be another working line trainer making the show line dogs look bad once again simply because they don’t know how to train them properly.  Seen this happen so many times this is just looking like another example.

Maywood,all the info on him was revealed including the info on failing the Slovak BST.Leon then passed SV BST so according to SV judge he was breedworthy so the seller wasn´t lying.It is up to the buyer to decide if they consider him to be a good prospect for breeding. The video of him failing the BST was taken by SUCHNO.You can also see other videos of him on youtube.Watch them and make your own decision - watch the grip,see the pressure put on him /almost none/.
You have your own criteria for what a good dog for breeding is,I have mine and this dog doesn´t meet my criteria.I want to breed GSDs not labrador retrievers.Selection is the way,you need to look at the dogs with open eyes and not look for the excuses /you are wrong telling that Marta´s handling is the reason of Leon´s failing,you don´t know her at all/.It just happens - dogs that won´t stand much pressure in protection work,they are born even from the most confident parents as breeding is not that easy.If I see that the dog does not have enough confidence in protection work or has other faults I just take it as it is and do not try to find the way how to somehow pass the BST and use the dog for breeding.I want to go ahead in breeding not two steps back.

@ Cage...I have to admit that the high lines that I have seen that have come from Czech/Slovah/Hungarian breeders are much stronger in character in general than these same lines from other places. I attribute this ( as you are saying) to the mentality that permeates these countries that strength of character is necessary for breeding regardless of lines. So it makes sense that they may ship a dog like that to places where breeders really place other virtues higher( though they won't say it), and thus this dog would meet the new places breeding expectations, but would not be kept in Slovakia where they expect more. Makes sense to me and consistent with what I have seen with these lines.

Glad to see you decided to speak your mind this time instead of retreating back to your dog house Gustav.  Ha-Ha!

@cage
I am hardly trying to make excuses for Leon as I have already said previously I’m not personally associated with him.  He may very well have temperament issues for all I know.  Only the original owners would have firsthand knowledge of this.  And if they truly have the betterment of the breed in mind it is THEIR responsibility to take the appropriate actions instead of pawning him off to someone else who isn’t as familiar with him.  Therefore, I think you have it backwards as far as who is ultimately responsible for deciding whether the dog should have a breeding career or not.
 
Then again, working line folks are well known for just breeding dogs without consideration of the total GSD in mind nor its future so it isn’t that unusual I guess.  As I said, buyers be extra aware when purchasing a show line dog from a working line trainer.  This is proving to be a good rule of thumb as we see this manifesting itself time and time again as the philosophies between the two is just totally different.

BTW, as a side note to both of you, I think it is a horrible comparison insinuating Labrador Retrievers are just sweet dogs that don’t have the courage to bite.  Some of the baddest dogs I know happen to be Labrador Retrievers so I think you should maybe use a better example, such as Golden Retrievers, in your future comparisons.  I can honestly say I have never met a Golden Retriever that would bite as they truly are just sweet dogs.  Just a thought.

@ Cage.....have you ever owned a dog that you could not assess whether the dog had temperament that was breedworthy???? I have acquired older dogs and could always determine if I felt the dog was breedworthy....makes no sense to me.