DM Death Statistics in the GSD among the PDB members - Page 2

Why not post pedigrees and the method in which the dog was diagnosed? Wouldn't that be the most useful way to create an accurate view withOUT creating hysteria?  For something this serious, I want facts- taking someone's word for it that their dog had this but they won't tell me how their dog was bred and has no official diagnosis via the ONLY sure-fire test available, doesn't cut it. Let's "out" the TRUE pedigrees; post DM info on the pedigree (now that they're locked and any numbskull can't go in there and say whatever they want).  I have a major problem with things like CE, spondylosis, etc. being diagnosed as DM and muddying the water. To be proactive from a health standpoint, you really need to have facts, not bandwagon hysteria. You could miss the real problem in the lines and be creating other problems inadvertantly.  

Hexe, that's the most useful post so far on this subject- honest, factual, names names and just plain makes sense as to some of the "whys". 

Jenni- you are 100 % right, the full pedigree is needed, NOT just a name , BUT when putting up a pedigree associated with DM, I myself. Feel ONLY those dogs CONFIRMED by necropsy should be added to it, NOT the I have a dog out of So and So, and I THINK he died of DM, or my vet THINKS it was DM .A voluntary submission of complete facts would be fantastic . The. DNA databases of dogs tested would be Wonderful to be made EASILY available, and understandable. Sometimes it is like a treasure hunt to find info, for some of us that don't know where and what exactly WE are looking for. (Yes, I get very lost on the computer sometimes).

Equally as important is a database with complete pedigrees of those tested that come up no risk, or carrier, This is the only way we can have accurate info,also included would need to be info on when testing is wrong,. Actually, there is a lot of info that needs to be gathered to get accurate USEFUL "FACTS". Kudos to Bee for trying to initiate a fact finding discussion.

I think you would need an organization (like the OFA) to manage an extractable database in order to make this information truly useful from a statistical standpoint. Drawing causality links between DM and pedigree information would also be tricky (such as distinguishing collinear independent variables).

Laura
(who thinks about statistical tests on a regular basis)

I believe Marj Zimmerman has collected pedigrees and causes of death on a website.There would be some info on DM there.

Maybe I misunderstand BeeTree's intent, but I think she is trying to establish how many GSD's diagnosed clinically with DM actually had DM. How they were diagnosed and were they posted after death to confirm the DM diagnosis.  

I read on the net that about 20% of GSD's diagnosed with DM actually had it when autopsied. I've tried to find that statement quite a few times, can't and I can't find any of Clemmon's articles anymore. Seems they have all been deleted. So I can't back this up with facts.

Breeders who DNA test their dogs have pretty good ideas of which dogs in their pedigrees were at risk and carriers. Most I know hesitate to share what they have learned simply because some will use it in a negative manner. There are many well known dogs from ALL lines involved. Best suggestion is just test your own dogs regardless of whether or not you are aware of any ar risks or carriers.  You will need to do that anyway if you want to use that test to make beeding decisions. Don't assume any dog is normal because you know of no effected relatives especially in lines where few are testing yet.





 

 There are many well known dogs from ALL lines involved. 

Please DO back that statement up with facts.

Marjorie's DM support group board has a forum titled "List your DM pedigrees here". THere are a little over 100 pedigrees listed there. I think you have to join her website to have access to the information. HEre is the link to the board: http://www.mzjf.info/Forums/index.php 

You can go through OFA's list also & look up the names for pedigrees, if they are listed;  http://www.offa.org/results.html?num=&registrar=&namecontains=N&part=&namecontains=N&breed%5B%5D=GS&breedlist=ALL&variety%5B%5D=&sex=&birthday_start_month=&birthday_start_year=&birthday_end_month=&birthday_end_year=&birthday=&regcode%5B%5D=DM&rating%5B%5D=DM%3A300&rptdte_start_month=&rptdte_start_year=&rptdte_end_month=&rptdte_end_year=&rptdte=&submit=Begin+Search 

I went through the whole list one day of all carriers & at risk. There are a lot of dogs with no pedigree on file, lots of AKC SL dogs, German SL dogs & I was surprise to see working line dogs also.
As for the working lines I did noticed some few common names show up; Eqidius lines & Xero z PS were the ones I saw the most often.

You can go through OFA's list also & look up the names for pedigrees, if they are listed;  http://www.offa.org/results.html?num=&registrar=&namecontains=N&part=&namecontains=N&breed%5B%5D=GS&breedlist=ALL&variety%5B%5D=&sex=&birthday_start_month=&birthday_start_year=&birthday_end_month=&birthday_end_year=&birthday=&regcode%5B%5D=DM&rating%5B%5D=DM%3A300&rptdte_start_month=&rptdte_start_year=&rptdte_end_month=&rptdte_end_year=&rptdte=&submit=Begin+Search 

I went through the whole list one day of all carriers & at risk. There are a lot of dogs with no pedigree on file, lots of AKC SL dogs, German SL dogs & I was surprise to see working line dogs also.
As for the working lines I did noticed some few common names show up; Eqidius lines & Xero z PS were the ones I saw the most often.

This is some of the pedigree's off the OFA site:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=498057

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=380923
 
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=515099

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=515780

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=569299

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=337004

The above pedigree's were from the AT Risk list. I did not list Carriers. 90% of the list were American Showlines these were the few with other pedigrees.

I don't know if more AM SL breeders are testing more for the higher results or not -?????

But when you cross this list with Carriers you'll start to see more wide spread through pedigrees from AM SL, WG SL & WL's.