DM Death Statistics in the GSD among the PDB members - Page 4

But would you buy a puppy from parents with no hip or elbow xrays or any health tests whatsoever?

My dog, Commander, had DM with all the classic signs and nothing on any spinal showing a structural problem, however he was walking until 13, and he died of hemagisarcoma as well.  This was before the genetic testing became available so I don't blame the breeder.  Also a truly amazing dog so of you would ask me would I get him again, knowing about the DM, I would still say yes and consider myself lucky.

Marjoe. I feel for you more than you know, but the pain is still raw.  I think in time you will see that you would not trade a single second of the good years you had and as hard as it is to watch a proud athlete unable to walk, there were many years, many good years and you were blessed, like I was.

Before any form of a test existed, there was little that could be done to obtain a definitive diagnosis in a living dog; MRIs or contrast radiography of the spinal cord are both invasive, expensive, and a significant risk in the healthiest of dogs, let alone a dog showing the clinical signs associated with DM.  When I discussed the condition with Dr. Clemmons after he'd viewed the video of my old girl, Jessie, one of the points he made was that a positive response to the treatment protocol (as it existed then--it was very basic at that time) was strong support for the diagnosis, as there are no other known conditions that respond to the treatment...though he also cautioned that a failure to respond was not sufficient to rule out the disorder, as the treatment protocol doesn't always interrupt the progression of the disease.  That really isn't unusal, in human or veterinary medicine...sometimes empirical evidence is all we get.

-- > She was so beautiful. I lost my heart GSD to breast cancer last year and remembering her still brings me to my knees.

Thanks, Sue.. I lost one to that, also :( There is just no good way to lose a well loved fur friend....They all have something that is uniquely special to them, dont they...

Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group http://www.mzjf.info/hgate Heaven's Gate  
 

The video Dr. Clemmons and his department put together that I referred to previously, which includes footage of my dog in the section that show samples of dogs which are at the moderate stage of the disorder's progression, is now found at this URL:

http://dog2doc.com/neuro/dm_web/DM_signs_ss.html  

She's the dog shown moving off- and on-lead on wide, sandy trail in the woods; the film was taken when she was just a little over 13 years old, and had been showing the symptoms for a few weeks at that point.  She started on the original UFla treatment protocol about two weeks after this was shot.

I miss you, Jess...

 --- > But would you buy a puppy from parents with no hip or elbow xrays or any health tests whatsoever?

No, I would not! That being said, Casey James was OFA in almost all of the 6 generations of his pedigree, both hips and elbows. Sire and dam were both ofa hips and elbows. However, 4 out of the 6 in his litter that were tested, failed their elbow OFA, as did Casey James. I did list his failed elbows on the OFA. I found it very odd that the OFA statistics say that 

--- >Normal Elbows x Normal Elbows = 12.2% offspring affected with ED

---- >Normal Elbows x Dysplastic Elbows = 26.1% - 31.3% offspring affected with ED

---- >Dysplastic Elbows x Dysplastic Elbows = 41.5% offspring affected with ED


so, how in the hell did 2/3 of his litter that WERE tested, fail their elbow OFA????? I am not good at m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-ath but doesnt that add up to 66% of the litter having bad elbows, and those were just the ones that were TESTED??? I dont have a lot of faith in the OFA. Even their stats are wrong. IF I ever got a GSD again ( but wont- too gun shy and heartbroken) I would go with penn hip rather than OFA for hips.

 

Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group http://www.mzjf.info/hgate Heaven's Gate  

When the DM Flash Test from Dr C was in existence, a positive result  in a dog showing classic signs of DM was found to have the same efficacy as all the rule in tests.  Dr C determined that, via necropsies, when he was researching. Missie T had the rule in tests and she also had a positive Flash Test. She did go into remission for 5 years on his program before the disease began to progress again, probably because I know so much about DM that I caught it long before another would have caught it.  When the disease came back, it took another 1 1/2 years before she went down. However, on his experimental program she did get up and walk again, albeit it not well. She still dragged her feet but  she was able to get herself up and walk a few steps and stand to drink some water or 
go from one room to another. Another person who had a DM dog contacted me, afer I lost Missie T ( I didnt know her) and she told me the same thing happened with her dog, who was in the experimental program. The dog was able to get up and walk again- wobbly, but was able to move around. Sadly, the last of the research funds have been used up and this treatment seemed to hold some promise.

Hungerforjustice, Yes, I would sell my soul to the devil to have  Missie T back and yes, I would choose her all over again, even if I knew she would get DM again. However, twice burned is enough for me. I dont blame her breeder anymore than I blamed the breeder of Jack Flash. Its not ONE or TWO breeders who can make a difference- its the masses of breeders who keep secrets that will destroy this breed. Although I will never have another, I will always love the breed with all my heart! I just cannot live through DM again. If I slit my wrists and bled out slowly, over a 4 day period, it would be less painful than living through DM, ever again. I cannot go there- I just cannot.

I called the U of Fla Foundation and asked them to set up a paypal account for donations to Dr Clemmons DM research. They are  501c3 organization so contributions would be tax deductable. It would be much easier to raise funds like that as people wouldnt need to send a check to the U of Florida Foundation with the memo section of the check annotated for Dr Clemmons DM research.  If paypal was available, people could send in even one or two dollars at a time, which would add up. Dealing with the U of Fla is impossible. I called their foundation 3 times and never got a return phone call. Dr C also asked, and he hasnt been answered either :( I wish he would go to another University... If everyone sent in 1 dollar for every GSD they owned, there would be over 1.4 million dollars for DM research, and thats just in the USA.

Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group http://www.mzjf.info/hgate Heaven's Gate  

First off, I'm not against the testing if that's what someone wants to do and it buys them some degree of peace of mind, then I understand that.  Secondly, this thread isn't about what I do or don't do, and I'm not the one who keeps bringing that up in defense of their stupid remarks.

What I AM against, is someone making false claims about what the test can "prove".  And that "There are many well known dogs from ALL lines involved."  And that,

Pedigrees are only of academic interest, it's the gene pool of the individual dog that matters. The only significance of a pedigree is that a dog sired by an at risk can only be an at risk or a carrier. Selective breeding can eliminate a simple recessive in 2 generations; at risks and carriers can be used for breeding.

1. Academic interest?!  Where do you think that the genepool comes from in that individual dog?  If it doesn't come from the producers in it's pedigree, I'd sure like to know where the hell else they'd attain their genetics!  This, is of course assuming the ancestry of the pedigree is accurate in the first place, I'll grant that.

2. A dog sired by a carrier CAN become more than a carrier, depending on the dam, and the accuracy of HER test!

3. Selective breeding won't eliminate a simple recessive in two generations if the test itself is UNRELIABLE!  And of course, pedigrees, not just the individual dog are then a necessary element to pull it off.

I AM adding something to this thread; a critical review of the MISINFORMATION being spread!  If someone wants to preach breeding practices, perhaps they should learn a little about breeding basics first.  One for consideration here is, TO OBTAIN PREDICTABLE RESULTS... don't regard speculation as if it were FACT.
 

 

 

Daryl, what's the big deal about a test that only costs $65 and may help to elminate DM from the breed? You've seen the pedigrees that were listed in this thread. What did that teach you? If you don't believe me that well-known dogs frpm different lines are involved, then do your own research and prove me wrong. I am not going to name specific dogs here, they are not my dogs and it's all a matter of pubilc record anyway. 2 of the dogs in the at risk pedigrees submitted are well known in the breed and have some great accomplishments.  Didn't you recognize them? They are working lines. They should not be eliminated from breeding because they are at risk or carriers.

Look you don't even xray your dogs hips so why would anyone think you would considered a DNA test for DM. As Hexe has said, we get it, you don't believe in testing for anything and the only reason you even participate in threads like this one is to try to start a pissing contest.  Your reputation in the GSD world is not exactly stellar and you seem determined to keep it that way.


 

We lost our female, Reba to DM.  She was 10 yrs old.  

Mike