DM Death Statistics in the GSD among the PDB members - Page 5

My, aren't you starting to sound like a broken record!  Like I said, whether or not I test has nothing to do with the validity of the DM test.  My reputation IS stellar among my clients, and I don't twist the truth as YOU have in this particular thread.  YOU obviously have some problem with me, because I simply don't agree with your wreckless statements.

  Whatever...have a nice day.

----> Daryl, what's the big deal about a test that only costs $65 and may help to elminate DM from the breed?

It IS a big deal because the test has already proven to be flawed in German Shepherd Dogs , and they have admitted that in certain breeds, the tes and! T

 They have already admitted, in writing, that in certain breeds the type of DM the breed gets is not caused by the SOD1. Therefire, all it does is give a false sense of security to breeders, who end up cutting dogs from an already small gene pool that is already subdivided where people breed amongst that particular subdivision. That is downright harmful to the breed.  It will shrink an already small gene pool, for no valid reason! It allows breeders to advertise DM free lines when we KNOW that is not the case. Progeny of tested dogs get an automatic clear, without any generational follow up. If the dogs that tested clear for DM, who subsequently died frmo DM, as proven upon necropsy, were bred, people who purchased pups from that breeding would have been blindsided. Better the $65 go research for  a test specifically developed for THE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG, that is accurate! The present test has proven to be innacurate for our breed, and therefore, it is useless and can only cause harm. THAT is the BIG DEAL!

Should I duck, now?

  Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group http://www.mzjf.info/hgate Heaven's Gate  

Marj, I don't know one GSD breeder who has cut any dogs from a breeding program due to the results of the test. 

Marjorie, I applaud you on looking into the U of FL foundation to donate funds. That they apparently ignored you is probably because they aren't set up to take nickle and dime donations, that would legally have to be acknowledged. I bet if you were to collect funds in a significant amount for a donation you would have more success. The thing is, whomever donated to you would not get a tax break unless you set yourself up as a 501 (c) 3 organization with the purpose to fund GSD research.

But Blitzen, if dogs are not going to be cut from breeding purposes as result of test, then what's the practical advantage of the testing? Marjorie makes very compelling sense in what she writes. Very compelling. I am one to look at information logically and try to make the best decisions possible. Both sides of testing at this point of what the test reveals can certainly be understood.

--- > That they apparently ignored you is probably because they aren't set up to take nickle and dime donations, that would legally have to be acknowledged

That shouldnt be difficult for them, Beetree, because they will have paypal records.! Paypal doesnt charge a fee for chartities, so they wont lose out there. The way paypal is set up, a receipt could be generated where it is acknowledged that the contribution is a tax deductible contribution. It is just the style of the U of Fla  to treat animal researchers as a distant cousin to their medical dept. They have one of the most talented researchers and they are wasting him. He has to leave there! Maybe I will start a petition asking him to do just that... LOL!

I am a loser whenever it comes to math or financials so me setting up and running a 501c3 would be disasterous. I know my limitations. I graduated college with honors but had to take remedial math course that met 3 x weekly in order to graduate, my math was was bad. My math was so horrendous they had to ink my score in, in the below average section, it was so low. I have a complete mental block when it comes to math.I am good with anything creative but when it comes to bookkeeping and math, frankly put, I suck :( I dont even know anyone who could be on a board of directors. I have to stick to what I can do and just do that as well as I can do, and that is to try to educate people about DM. That I understand backwards and forwards. That being said, there is no good reason why the U of Fla should not be cooperating. Perhaps a petition from[people who would be willing to donate if a paypal account would be set up would help them to see the light. They have everything in place. They have to be more open minded about the importance of their veterinary dept, and work with them. That I will try to do better, on that score, as that is just the most practical way to proceed.
Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group http://www.mzjf.info/hgate Heaven's Gate  

--- >Marj, I don't know one GSD breeder who has cut any dogs from a breeding program due to the results of the test.

But you dont know all the breeders in the dog world :(
  

OK- I will admit to speaking with the OFA about changing the wording, in relation to the OFA DM DNA test on their website. I know a lawyer who is very pro animal health. I spoke with him after I found out that carriers and clear GSDS died from DM. He asked me if the OFA was informed of the cases, and I told him I had informed them of the cases, and several people whose dogs died from DM also called and submitted their necropsies to Dr Coates. The lawyer said it would be fraudulent representation to claim that the test was accurate for GSDS, or not admit, on the site, that they had knowledge of clears and carriers developing DM. I pointed him to the wording on the OFA website in relation to the test. He offered to file a class action lawsuit because the legal definition of fraudulent representation is:  

--->Fraudulent representation means making of a false statement about a material fact, with the knowledge that such statement is false, to another person with an intention that such other person to whom that statement is made must believe it as true and must act upon it resulting in an injury to the person to whom such false representation is made

 

--->In order to constitute a fraudulent representation the following elements need to be proved:

        ---> (1)that the party making the statement was aware that it is false or disregards the possibility of it being false;

When the OFA was notified of the clear dogs and the carriers that developed DM, confirmed upon necropsy, that meant that they KNEW their claims in relation to the OFA DM DNA Test  were possibly false. I informed them that this attorney was going to proceed with a class action lawsuit unless the wording on the site was rectified. Next thing I knew, the wording on the site was altered to say that

 

--->two dogs with test results of N/N (Normal) have been confirmed to have DM  

--->we have confirmed DM in a few carrier dogs  

--->recent evidence suggest that there are other causes of DM in some breeds


Had they not changed the wording, they would have brought the whole house of cards down on themselves and they wouldnt have had a legal leg to stand on. I am sorry, but in my heart of hearts I do believe they are doing a terrible disservice to the breed. Had they followed 2 or 3 generations throughout their lifetime, and their claims were accurate, I wouldnt have said a word, because they would have proved their case. However, their claims are outrageous, and, again, to give an automatic pass to progeny when the sire and dam are still alive and we cannot see if they will or will not develop DM is just nuts. I get annoyed because I have had breeders troll my DM boards trying to push DM free lines. My board is not a classified ad forum, for puppies. It is for people who are in the depths of despair, facing heartbreak, and they dont need to be sold snake oil, nor will I allow it on my board.  I cannot believe any RATIONAL person could believe in DM free lines, and this test is certainly not a litmous test, as most people do not necropsy their dog, they dont have the money or the heart to do it. They have been through enough on their DM journey.  I never had panic attacks in my life, but I have them now, watching Casey James like a hawk, waiting for the shoe to drop. I dont want anyone waving false hope in my face, or in the face of those who have suffered the loss of a DM dog!  IMHO, with so few necropsies being done, and so many instances of the test being fallible with the necropsies that have been performed, this test is just not valid for our breed and the shoe is gonna drop, bigtime.

I have been told that Dr Coates will now be charging for necropsies. Why? I can help but wonder if it has anything to do with the clears and carriers that were necropsied and found to have DM. If they really wanted to know the truth, necropsies would be a vital part of the research. IMHO, they are back peddling. In this kind of economy, and with the tremendous expenses involved with caring for a DM dog, there aint a lot of spare money to go for a necropsy, not to mention the emotional toll it would take on an owner who has already been to hell, and I would say back, but I dont know if one truly ever *comes back* after living the DM nightmare.  The claims being made about this test are completely premature, and a false sense of security helps NO one or no dog! It just makes an innocent owner a fly on the wall, waiting to be squished by a swift moving newspaper. WHACK! Blindsided......

The truth about ones lines is a much better defense and preventative than a flawed test. Sadly, too many wouldnt tell the truth about their lines if they were hung by their fingernails in the blistering sun. THERE is where the problem lies, which is one of the reasons I created the GSDBBR. If the breeders dont want to participate, and they want to circle the wagons, then the pet owners have a place to have their say. The more the pet owners  participate, the quicker the truth will be revealed, and for the honorable breeders who come and list the health problems of the dogs they have bred, other honorable breeders can list the problems they have had in their lines, so doubling up on health problems can be avoided. NO dog lives forever- all dogs are going to die of something. It is my belief that people should be able to pick their own poison. Again, if I was to ever purchase another GSD (which I will not) I would go to a breeder who listed their dogs on the GSDBBR. That way, I know I would be dealing with an upfront person and one who truly cared about the future of the breed.  The last person I would ever purchase a dog from is one who shouts to the hills about having  DM free lines. Thats just a bunch of pure unadulterated BS!

Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group http://www.mzjf.info/hgate Heaven's Gate  

 

Would anyone be willing to help me get the U of Fla to set up a paypal account so people could donate a few dollars at a time for DM research? They might be able to ignore ONE person, but they wouldnt be able to ignore a slew of requests. If anyone is willing to help, please PM me, and I will give you the contact info. They never answer their phone- you will always get a recording, but if they are flooded with phone messages or emails, they might change their tune. Please- I need your help- not only for me, but for all of our beloved fur friends who have lost their lives to DM, and for those who will lose their lives to DM.  Obviously, people reading this thread care about DM. It DOES take a village ot get things done!  We could really do something good here, as there are so many people on this forum. You can cross post, and if they get enough calls, perhaps they will realize it will be worthwhile for them or they will do it just to shut us up! I KNOW we can get this done if we all work together. It is absolutely NOT true that ONE person can make a difference. However, an army can make all the difference in the world. For those of you who have lost a dog to DM, I beg you to help me make this wish/project a reality. For those of you who have been lucky, and havent had to walk the DM path, do it because you have been lucky, or because God forbid, one day you may find yourselves on the same path and will wish you had. With the efficacy of the DM Flash Test being the same as the rule in tests ( or rule out tests, if you will) we can get some answers. German Shepherd Myelopathy research cannot come to a halt, and we need research that we KNOW is applicable to OUR breed. We already know per the  the OFA website that in certain breeds, there are other causes of the disease. OUR breed is that *in certain breed*!!! Please help me help our dogs. I hope I wake up tomorrow with my inbox jammed with requests to help.. I also hope that tomorrow morning I will wake up looking like Angelina Jolie, but there may be a better chance of my inbox being flooded. well, maybe... Hope springs eternal... Please help me to keep my promise to Jack Flash and Missie T. I am not getting any younger and I promised both Jack Flash and Missie T, as they closed their eyes for the last time, I would see the disease that took them from me laid to rest, as it took them from me.

Beetree- we have had our disagreements, but thanks for lighting a fire under my butt...

Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group http://www.mzjf.info/hgate Heaven's Gate