Is Tom van't Leefdaalhof the next Troll/Timmy in sport world? - Page 3

"..............what they bought to the table, but too much of them concentrated is just too sporty for my tastes . "

well, there you go.  exactly what i was talking about.  that is why i say bring them in to a breeding, but don't base your kennel on them.
and since eisenhaus brought up the long haired thing, i will admit that is one of the things i see too much of coming from both tom & troll.

pjp


****it is my fervent hope than one day the sport folks will realize the importance of the damline and stop breeding willeynilley to whatever males seem to be winning and competing at the moment.  that is not a breeding program. 

"It seems who you mix with Tom lines depends on how they become more sporty or civil."



bingo.  see, people do know what we are talking about.  :)


pjp  

A few of us do ziegenfarm :) wileyniley female breeding has to be factored when looking at progeny. $ talks first these days. I bought that chico daughter bred to troll. I would have to say she was not one of chico's finer females by a long shot. I never bred her again.

Ziegenfarm.....Bingo! Yes Tom is in a lot of police dogs ALS....but mainly in supplementary roll to bring drive Gand grips which is strong in Orry line. My young male is definite police candidate with Ellute as maternal grandfather, but my point is today Troll/Timmy are often seen on both sides of the pedigree in many sport dogs. The dogs are linebred on the T litter narbarschaft......and sometimes the dogs have three lines to these two in five generations,(4-5,4) as an example. I hope Tom or Ellute orVito don't get concentrated to that degree on down the road.like was said, with Tom in a pedigree in supplemental role you can produce diversity in type dogs created.....if they start intensive line breeding on these dogs you will stop seeing them in important venues...jmo

 Tom will for sure be among the great producers in more recent times, are all his offspring great no,but his genes added to the mix are a great breeding tool and my 2-3 linebred female on Tom shows just how good the line can produce, a high percent of his progeny do very well in top sport through the E-litter and others

No question about his current influence in the sport world.

The value of any sought out Stud is that they will "Click" with other lines or dogs in breedings.  Every dog has faults or carry some baggage, but Tom has been shown to click with a number of other popular and influential dogs.  Yoshi was mentioned as a great click, so was Ufo, and a few others.  Falk is a very popular piller also...

I might point out that any structure depends on a number of pillers all supporting the whole. Leaning too heavily on ANY dog will lead to problems...  Mentioning Lance of Fran-jo in the US show lines as the perfect example!  I've seen pedigrees in which every male line stops with Lance... I've heard the same comments on the German Show lines depending too much on one or two dogs.

If you look up recent breedings on working-dog.eu by country, you will see many of the recent breeding in Germany, France, Denmark, and even Czeck Republic have Tom on the ped, so I think definitely it is the new Troll/Timmy, or the new Fero. I have not seen much line-breeding though, even though there are enough dogs out there to do 3-3 and the like.

I'm in the middle of whelping a litter that is 3-4 on Tom.  There's also Pike von der Schafbachmuhle, Metin vom Stadtfeld, Fado von Karthago and Nash vom Lisdorferland up close.  I imported the dam of the litter in whelp to get something for myself to raise and train.  I am really looking forward to raising these pups.

Of course, I was planning on keeping a male and I have 6 bitch pups and 2 dog pups so far.  There's still 2-4 more pups in there so I may have more males to choose from before we're done. 

What lines  do you guys think go well with the Ellute lines for breeding. Also what kinds of things do you all notice in the offspring of Ellute, Tom lines? We use the Ellute lines often and looking for others point of view.

I have an Ellute grandson love him to death.  He's funny actually in one breath, but is deadly and demonic if you try to come near me (if he senses there is a problem). He's busted 5 windshields this year, forgot how many last year.  Thanks to Allstate they've replaced them.  Not sure what I'd do without him.  Best dog I've even owned.  His great grandfather is Tom V.  Just a funny guy all the way around, always on his back putting himself in a vulnerable state, but very stable mentally.