Chocolate GSDs....sigh - Page 4

None so deaf as those who will not hear.  Sad.  I sincerely hope that she
is one of the lucky owners, and does not come to remember all this in a
year or two.

Hisblue,

I think everyone is just trying to make you understand that GSDs are supposed to be working dogs. They should only be bred TOWARD that purpose. Which involves following a standard. This breeder is breeding against the standard and is in turn futhering the downfall of the breed. I am not judging the breeder, but they should do more research. Many people are ignorant to the importance of keeping the breed as it was meant to be. Actually we ALL were at one point, but some choose to listen and learn while others dont. 

Words from the creator of the breed himself...Max v. Stephanitz

"The breeding of shepherd dogs is the breeding of working dogs; and this must always be the aim, or we shall cease to produce shepherd dogs."

Abbey Normal, i think you were thinking of the 'breeder' in Gloucestershire who imported 2 livers from America, the bitch has completely shot hips that were so bad the xrays were not submitted to the panel for scoring as apparently saying the dog has not been scored sounds better than saying it has an awful score to potential puppy buyers. This poor bitch went on to have a daughter who surprise surprise also has an incredibly high score. I think this poor bitch is about to have her 3rd litter. The liver import male is an even worse specimin, apart from the fact that he is smaller than a breed standard bitch, he also has aggression issues and is a nervous wreck. This is another 'breeder' who churns out chocolate gsd's for a princely sum!!!

Every time a breeder breeds GS for a specific color...rather out of ignorance or for special features....the breed suffers. The breed was not meant to be a proper color as it was not created from specific colors. The breed was meant to be a strong, courageous, versatile working dog! Nervousness, shyness, over aggression, timidity, lack of working drive are signs of deficiencies in the breed....breeding dogs like these is irresponsible breeding no matter how pet oriented they are.

Gustav,

I understand what you are saying about breeding for color.  But lets say a well properly breed dog for temperment and work that is heavey black and a red chest and you breed to a similar color dog that is also well breed for work and temperment that would be ok correct?  It is just the "trendy" colors?

Going on I saw a mention of the white GSD.  My vets office says they have a policy that any white GSD that comes in for shots gets a muzzle.  He said white GSD are very unstable in the head in his experience. 


I cant speak of it on experience as I am a newer GSD owner just passing along what the vet said

troopscott
You are right - where the Showlines people stuck to permutations of black and
gold, to the virtual exclusion of grey/sable dogs - as was true for a long time, [in the
UK more SL ppl are bringing in sables to conformation competition these days,
and on both sides of the Pond, Working Lines people have always used a lot
of grey dogs] this was a limitation.  However it wasn't quite such a serious one,
for the following reasons:   Black n gold dogs, though less so now with the SL
concentration on very 'red' gold, have always had the variety in shades and pattern
that indicates a wider distribution of the gene pool - think bi-colours, saddle marked
versus blanket backed, etc.  And while black & gold may have been the main
preference, it has been fairly incidental to the breeding of good dogs with proper
construction, better hips n elbows, haemophilia-clear, strong pigment in eyes, nails etc. 
Those were breeders' priorities, more so than colour.
When others start breeding JUST to get , say, White dogs (rather than just have a few
crop up naturally), they almost entirely "throw the baby out with the bathwater" - if not
in the last two or three generations, some of them at least are reasonably careful about
that, then still quietly forgetting what is out of sight on the normal pedigree form.

Where this has undermined temperament and working ability, it is clear that white dogs
drew a short straw - but you cannot blanket say that ALL white dogs are cowards / biters,
just as you cannot state that 'All all-black dogs are hysterical", to quote another recent
thread on here.IMO.

  We can only speak from our own experience regarding our White female, Megan, who had a lovely temperament,and before she took ill, loved to run and play and learn new things.
Walked well on lead without being muzzled,met many people and dogs and wildlife on her travels.
   Our Vet at the Royal (Dick) Veterinary College will testify to her temperament as other Vets who saw and examined her from Glasgow will all agree,she was put through many extensive tests when she was ill and never once did she show any aggression except an understanding and acceptance of the help being given.

Colour is here, that is a fact. Epilepsy sadly is not prejudiced to colour or coat length. 
The other interesting fact is that the colour Isabella is not entirely new to this Breed as it was  produced many years ago.

   Margaret

I stick by what I say....lol.....if by breeding for a certain temperament you have created a nice golden retriever type pet dog.....I still say its wrong. The traits of this breed are undeniable and in line for the dog to be strong, resilient, and able to handle stress so as to be able to be of service to man. Breeding for specific colors over a period of time leads away from this....there are so many examples of this that it shouldn't even be questioned by knowledgable breed people. And you shouldn't be breeding if you aren't a knowledgable person of the breed.jmo

Oh undoubtably, gustav, in an ideal world.  If people want Goldie temperament,
better they buy a Goldie;  and as Susie wrote a couple of days ago, leave the
working breeds to people who will work them.  But we are a very long way down
the track in terms of the universal popularity of Shepherds;  and the world's
most numerous breed has such adaptability that in one form or another folk
have got used to having the laid-back companion type dog now.  We can't
reverse that : look how the pet owners shriek when the luck of the draw gets
them a very high-drive pet that they cannot cope with, its always supposedly the
dogs' fault.  Never mind that in today's society everybody thinks they have the
'right' to keep a dog(s), no matter that they are all going to be out at work all day
every day, or whatever.  If they like the way the GSD - or the Mali, or the Border
Collie - looks, and its intelligence, then that is what they are determined they shall
have, whether or not they can be with it enough / give it enough to do.  In practice
I find very few people of that mind-set will research, then stop and think, then
reject and go for a breed more designed to be a pure companion.  There are
plenty of such utility breeds;  but getting people to realise that they would be a
better fit is an uphill struggle, particularly when we have some breeders deliberately
undermining working aptitude in favour of pet suitability.

Hisblue
Look, this was not directed at you, nor intended to offend you. I said only good things of you, and also said your boy was handsome, which he is. He looks as healthy as a horse and I hope he stays that way. I understand, and I too would be upset if I thought someone was having a go at my dogs, but I am not and was not bad mouthing your dog.

‘Chocolate’ GSDs red flagged this breeder to me during our conversation, and that is what made me look at them again, and what has developed since stems mainly from the fact that the breeder seems to have fired you up to be her mouthpiece. If she came on here herself she could offer to refute anything that has been said, here or in other places. But why do you think she is getting you to do it instead?
If you want to have a pop at me in the park when we meet again that’s fine, I will listen, but if you want to take your shot at me I will offer you more information about the breeder than I care to put here, and in the interests of fair play you let me have my shot too, and listen to what I have to say, otherwise don't bother.

This post was not about you, never was, and it may help the owners of those future Megan’s and Bailey’s, if they google 'chocolate GSDs' and if it averts just one tragedy and puts someone on the path to a more reputable breeder I can live with that.