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Prager

by Prager on 05 January 2013 - 11:01

Do you agree    with  sentiment of this statement as ethically correct and why ? 

.... Keep in mind what it costs you for a well bred puppy and what most people here in the USA pay for a pup. Not to mention most of us don't have a 10-20 kennel runs in our back yard. When I purchase a puppy it is for sport & future breeding prospect. If you want everyone to keep dogs with bad hips etc...I suggest keeping your sales to pet homes as most serious sport/working homes WILL RETURN A DOG if it is not capable of being a future sport/working and breeding prospect when they pay top dollar. In fact most serious working/sport homes will sell/place said dog if drives are not at the level one is looking for.

Prager Hans
PS please understand that in above scanrion  such person would get another dog and keep the "non perfect" one too. 


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 05 January 2013 - 11:01

Hans - not entirely, because of the words "When I purchase a puppy
it is for sport  and future breeding potential ."

Given that the speaker is 'one of us without kennels' etc  I can only
assume this is yet another person who thinks they have some 'right'
to produce puppies of their own, come what may.  Reckon by now
from reading my posts you will know that I believe half the problems
in the breed arise out of this 'freedom'.   It is certainly not a 'given'
that every dog that gets titles stuck on it is automatically breed-worthy.

Particularly as it then admits the number of dogs 'placed' elsewhere
if they don't make the grade.  I take issue with the ethics of these sports
people who treat dogs as a disposable commodity, no matter how much
effort they might put in to find a good home for the unwanteds they buy.
Or breed.

Remember  "A dog is for life, not just for Christmas" ?
How about   A DOG IS FOR LIFE, NOT JUST FOR COMPETITIONS .

melba

by melba on 05 January 2013 - 11:01

I myself, would keep the non perfect dog provided the breeder would give me another, at no cost to myself from a litter I chose (I chose the first,
right?) or have some imput on. I paid to have a genetically puppy shipped. I should not need to pay again if the first was not as represented.

Now, IF I had limited space as many of us do, I might rehome the first dog to a close friend or family member (not just someone willy nilly because
I am very attached to my dogs and I need to know that they are well taken care of!) So would I ever return a dog? No. Might I place it with someone
I trust? Yes.

.02
Take it for what its worth.

Melissa

ETA: I would never sign a contract to begin with that REQUIRED the return of my first dog in order to make good on a guarantee. That is emotional
blackmail.

YogieBear

by YogieBear on 05 January 2013 - 11:01

I don't agree with the statement - "AS I READ IT" - Breeders looking to place a puppy in the best home for the drives, personality, etc of that puppy- as well as "placing the puppy we think would do best in sport, pp, or a pet home........For a buyer to think that there is a guarantee of future potential not being met is ridiculous......(who to say- the same dog in another handlers hands wouldn't be a better sport dog).........."personal note": I have seen awesome adults that scored very high in the sport be purchased by half a** handlers and the dogs didn't excel when they trialed the dog"...........

Buying a puppy is a crap shoot. 

Hip guarantees are one thing but a guarantee that the dog will excel in sport as well as become a great breeder in the future?  - can the buyer guarantee that they are a handler that can train a dog to excel in the sport?

No,most people don't have 10-20 runs.  If they want that guarantee that the dog will excel in sport and be a breeder- then buy a adult..............

Just my opinion.
Yogie

Hired Dog

by Hired Dog on 05 January 2013 - 12:01

Hans...may you be playing on the emotions of some people here? I saw that quote in your question on another thread, but, I would quote it differently in yours....See, like Yogi said, buying a puppy is always a gamble, you cannot guarantee that said puppy will turn out to be anything other then a dog and if you want guarantees, you spend the money and get an adult, but, the REAL question here is, "would you keep a dog you bought for a reason, to work, for example, and the dog does not have right drives"?
If it were me, I ended up with a dog that did not have what I needed for MY kind of work, no, I would not keep the dog, there is no reason for it. I would tell the person I bought it from, maybe I could work something out there, or, I would sell said dog to get some of my money back.
Some of us are not looking for pets, some people depend on their dogs having the proper qualities to work every day and they MUST have the right dog. As I always said, EVERYTHING starts with proper selection from a trusted source, everything.


midgie1007

by midgie1007 on 05 January 2013 - 12:01

I agree with Yogie.  Buying a puppy is a crap shoot.  You hedge your bets on parents, pedigree, etc, but no one can guarantee that the puppy you purchased is going to go to the Nationals.  You also can't 'guarantee' how the purchaser is going to raise and train the puppy.

If you want a safer bet, buy an older dog...the cost will be greater, but you can better see what you are getting.

kitkat3478

by kitkat3478 on 05 January 2013 - 12:01

I believe with 100% certainty, that, "but for me" my Bullinger boy would of, could of been, "EVERYTHING" and MORE than his father and grandfather were.
The abilities. Of the owner/handler are just as important, if not more so, then the dogs abilities.
I am one that guarantees my pups 100%, including temperment.
I cannot guarantee the new owner!

by Gustav on 05 January 2013 - 13:01

I think practices driven by emotion has hurt the breed significantly, just like unethical or uneducated breeders. With policies like owners for life or return dog to breeder as only options being honorable, half of all the police, military, search and rescue, and service dogs probably would not be around. Bad for maintaining the breed as a functional one of purpose, great for transitioning our breed to the status of ultimate pet. The poodle was once a dog of function......? Anyway, sound German Shepherds have little or no problem transitioning to a new environment, the problem is the emotional projection and baggage of some people. If the environment for the dog is good and wholesome the dog will thrive. We all wish to live an ideal life or have an ideal marriage, but life doesn't evolve that way, and sometimes what we want enacted for our emotional comfort, is not actually necessary for the one targeted, and can further us in turning this breed completely into a pet with very little service or work use. For some this is fine, but for others this is a travesty(though you see it already with attitudes and practices), but in closing let me say this is not against pet ownership, or that any one way is right.....but that sometimes our desires have unintended consequences. My opinion is just another way of seeing things.

susie

by susie on 05 January 2013 - 13:01

Ethically or not...           Gustav. this is questioning the whole dogsport in itself. and you know that.

In my personal opinion it´s not ethical to give away a dog, only because it´s sick, or worse, it might not be capable of "high scores" in Schutzhund.
I always think about me and my dogs as a team, sometimes one team member is stronger than the other.
Dogsport became the sport of some "so called" professional trainers, they buy and sell, always looking for the 300 points dog.
The dog isn´t important any longer, the points are. And I really would like to see these so called top trainers training a dog that doesn´t fit their minds....Cry Smile
My personal heroes are that kind of people, who train their dogs to there best, no matter if they achieve 240 or 286 points.
No difference with show people, why do I need to own a VA dog? The rating doesn´t change the dog, the dog doesn´t even care.
The dog in itself was meant to be a companion at first, not a sports kit. a lot of people forgot about this.

Police and army is a different story. These people need to have the right dog on their side.

Kind regards

by Gustav on 05 January 2013 - 13:01

Dog sport and show sport....they are one and the same in these practices....there are hobby owners in both that feel as you do, there are professionals in both that condone these practices....truthfully, my only concern is the well being of the breed and things that support that....here is the irony in the above, some of the people that feel the strongest about forever policies, are people who have dogs that they have acquired from these same type of high profile show/sport kennels....go figure.





 


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