low thresholds = poor nerves??? - Page 3

I also think some people here live with rose tinted eyewear

That is very, very true!

Some people come here just to disagree with others in order to ascertain their superiority in their own eyes. 
In order to stick to the topic I'd say I understand what  SitasMom means. She is not describing by my definition sharp dog, but hard dog. Which in my definition is dog which will not give up under negative pressure mental and physical. 
As far as stick hits goes I'd say that in today's  PC - pussyfied world dogs are not hit in training in a painful way. However how  else do you test dog's resilience to pain is beyond me.  Level of pain resilience  is important to know in  a dog who is going to encounter real fighting - to the dog injurious,  perpetrator of a crime.  Most of  today dogs go into such situation in super high prey which overrides the pain.  That is sufficient  in many real life situation.  But many such dogs in smallest feeling of pain will give up.   Back in olden days dogs during their bite on sleeve were hit with bamboo twig so hard that it  would leave welts and it caused quite a bit of  pain and hit like that on human skin would leave a mark for at least few hours and it would hurt like fire.  However if someone would do that today people would get upset or even aggressive as some members here indicated.  Today the sticks are padded and hits are really only mental but void of physical pain.  That leads to breeding dogs who may be mentally strong but if pain is present in real life protection many such dogs fold it like a cheep tent. Not all, but many.  I remember dogs who were bred in a way that when they encountered pain that would push back more and more where giving up for pain was not even in their "program" . That may be Sitasmom dog ...at least by her description.   Such dogs are more and more rare since nobody breeds for that trait these day and what ever dogs of such type are there are relicts- throw backs on when this quality was valued and permitted to be tested. 
Prager Hans

As far as pain goes I would like to add that there is pain resiliance and pain sensitivity. Both  were important aspect in evaluation of a dog. Today such evaluation is hardly possible. 
Prager Hans

Hans,
I agree with you regarding hardness and pressure.  What I take from the description of Sitasmom's dog is a dog high in drive that is sufficiently hard.  Hard would definitely be a better term to describe the dog than sharp.  I have owned and worked some very hard females that were not sharp, lacked civil aggression but so strong in work they could take serious pressure and become harder.  However, the aggression was directed at the equipment and it's desire to "capture and kill the prey".  I saw a video of "Vanessa," I believe this is the dog Sitasmom is talking about.  A very nice dog, high drive for bite work but high prey.  The dog when loaded or agitated screams in a high pitched bark, this to me is a sign of prey not a sign of defense or sharpness.  The dog works very nicely and I'm not taking anything away from the dog.   

Some people come here just to disagree with others in order to ascertain their superiority in their own eyes

If that statement was directed to me, please clarify that so we can address it directly. 

Regarding the decoy at the seminar; I do not see any reason for a SL sport dog to be needlessly pressured as pointed out by Sitasmom by the decoy at the seminar.  If this were a working K-9 that would be a different story altogether or a top handler with a high end working or sport dog.  I can assure you that when working our K-9's they are tested, stressed and fought in a very strong and controlled manner.  Pressure is applied and the dog must battle through it on his own often for extended confrontations with no help from the handler.  A novice to bite work needs to be very careful when bringing a dog to a seminar.  I would strongly urge people to go and watch the seminar before ever participating with a dog, especially if the seminar is given by someone that you don't know personally.  Applying pressure to a young newly acquired female like Sitasmom describes can have lasting effects that will not show up that day, but may show up later. 

JMO FWIW

Not Vanessa and not newly aquired.

Don't have video of her, and my camcorder isn't working.

Thank you Hans for putting into words what I was trying to describe.

slam thanks for the difference between sharp and hectic, i thought the two things would manifest themselves identically so you could not tell the difference but thinking about it hectic may be due to something that happens in the work while sharp is just how a dog is around the house away from the work as well?? i would think tho that a sharp dog could potentially overlap with hectic in the work?

sharp however must coincide with very low thresholds does it not - in fact i would suggest they are two words for the same thing but low thresholds goes a bit further and has to be qualified by low threshold for X drive, in that sense sharp would really be another way of saying low threshold for suspicion would it not?

vk4gsd,
Sharp and hectic are different.  A sharp dog will have a "low threshold" for aggression when provoked, this can be seen at home not necessarily with the "family" but with others.  It can also be seen other places it is a part of the dog's temperament.  A hectic dog can have a low threshold for aggression when frustrated and look for an outlet for it's stress.  So a hectic dog can be sharp as well as hectic.  Suspicion is not always a motivator, a confident dog like mine will have little tolerance for a stranger touching, petting or doing something he doesn't like or "violates" his rules or personal space.   I would describe my dog as a little sharp, but not hectic or frantic.

Sharp dog may by my definition have low threshold to negative stimulus. But also is  more then average alert and observant and smarter and generally more "on the ball"  so to speak.  He/she also has strong nerves and  is confident and decisive and very fast in making proper decision. Sharp dog by my definition does not have poor nerves. Sharp dog is a positive quality but it is not a qulity which everybody desires. 
Sharp dog can be perfectly under control. 
Hectic or frantic  dog  is not well under control. It is a totally separate  quality which may be stemming from weak nerves or from improper training or socialization or all of the above. 
Prager Hans

Sharp dog may by my definition have low threshold to negative stimulus. But also is  more then average alert and observant and smarter and generally more "on the ball"  so to speak.  He/she also has strong nerves and  is confident and decisive and very fast in making proper decision. Sharp dog by my definition does not have poor nerves. Sharp dog is a positive quality but it is not a qulity which everybody desires. 

I agree with this except in my view "sharp" is not used to describe intelligence or have anything to do with intelligence.  Sharp is a positive trait for those that  can handle a "sharp" dog.  Sharp is not a description of weak nerves, but the quickness to aggression.  "Sharp / shy" is used to describe a do with weak nerves and very quick to aggression.  A dog with weak nerves can be described as "sharp" as a dog with strong nerves and a solid temperament can be "sharp."  Being "sharp" in a weak nerved dog is very undesirable.  This is how I use the term "sharp" when describing behavior or temperament.  
 
Sharp dog can be perfectly under control. 

Yes, a sharp dog can be completely under control and an excellent dog.  We have several sharp dogs in our K-9 unit, they can also be excellent sport dogs, working dogs, pets and companions.  The owner just needs to understand the dog's temperament and the possibility for aggression.  

Hectic or frantic  dog  is not well under control. It is a totally separate  quality which may be stemming from weak nerves or from improper training or socialization or all of the above. 

Yes, that is generally true, but even the best trained dog, strong nerved dog can become frantic.  It can also be caused by over loading the dog or the dog being put in a high energy state, and / or an extremely stressful situation with no immediate release for it's stress or drive.  It can also be seen in a dog that has not leaned the ability to "cap" or maintain itself.  

Sitasmom, you must have a lot of dogs.

:) @ Slamdunc.