low thresholds = poor nerves??? - Page 5

Hans,
I can give you many examples of courage from friends and family that fought cancer but you would never know they were sick until their last days.  I can give examples of people doing incredible things at great risk to their own personal safety to save or render aid to another.  I suppose my definition would be taking action and going forward in the face of imminent danger, facing fear and moving past it.  The strength to face adversity when there is great risk.  Someone who stands up for others or what they believe in such as Rosa Parks.  I see a Police Officer who chases an armed subject as courageous knowing how lethal the situation is, I don't see the Police dog as courageous who chases the same armed subject.  Since the dog does not understand the consequences, the peril or the danger it may be in I do not view that as courage, that is drive.  

I do not think dogs view the world in the same way as humans do.  I try to avoid using terms to describe a dog that I may use to describe a person.  If I knew that dogs understood life, death and consequences of their actions I may change my opinion.  Since most teenagers lack the ability to understand the consequences and the effects of their actions or the concept of death; I do not think dogs can either.  I am sure there are some examples of courageous dogs, but it usually makes for a good story.   

so what exactly do other people think on the matter??

I think if you're going to toss courage out of your personal philosophy, you shouldn't use the word "fear", either.  Just describe the dog by what it DOES, I suppose, instead of how you THINK it feels.  Courage, to me and as it applies to humans, is overcoming a fearful instilling situation and denying your immediate instincts.  Some dogs (or breeds) have a lot more going on upstairs than others, if you know what I mean, but I think in most cases, instincts are "the rule", except where training applies.

Ninety percent of what a dog does on it own is related or motivated by drives. Once man starts shaping and training behaviors into dogs, they often try to use human based traits to describe actions or consequences. In dogs and most animals, fear is an important trait for good and bad....but more for good. Shyness is a component od fear. Not all of it but part of it. Domestication has led us to breed for traits in some breeds that conflict with instinctive drives. The problem sometimes is people try to look at nerves, thresholds, and drives, from a human perspective. I try to look at all things from a dog and its motivator's perspectives.  For a GS climatic comfort for the breed is very vast, part of what makes this a superior working dog, from many human owners perspective the in house temperature they live in is the only thing that is good for the breed. With thresholds and nerves, we must understand the motivation of actions from a dog's perspective to understand and develop the results we need as humans in our training and living modules.

This is one of these subjects that you will always have conflict in defining.....lol

Dogs do show "fear."  That is part of instinct and needed for survival.  Gustav, excellent post.  

I respectfully disagree with some of these posts. Courage does exist in animals, in degrees that can be measured and wittnessed if you know what you are looking for. Aggression in most cases has little to do with it. The launch in an attact has little to do with it. The analogy of a mongoose, bull dogs etc. willingness to fight has nothing to do with it. A dog even in bite work can't in most cases be judged for his degree of courage. Courage cannot be trained. Confidence can be built but that is different than courage. You can have all the drive in the world but that has nothing to do with courage. Courage to a high degree is purely genetic.

Hank

That is exactly what it is, It is and can be measured in dogs, any animal and even humans.

Hank

Dessert dog, this can get long and detailed, so, I will try to keep it short. Gameness is indeed genetic and it is something that people breed for and prize in certain breeds.
It goes against Nature as knowing when to vacate is paramount to staying healthy/alive, so, I dont call it courage. What slamdunk described as courage resonates more with that word then gameness. Since the animal has no concept of death while engaging in these activities, it cannot be called courageous. To have courage is to know that you can indeed get killed while doing something and yet, still do it, despite the fact that death is imminent.
The difference between gameness and courage is "knowing" that it can kill you.