Show line-working line mix, a revival of the breed? - Page 3

And this is part of the letter that came along with the pics, from the NYS trooper that goes out and evaluates dogs for the police;




Hey Joni!!
Everything is great down here . I'm sorry I haven't sent you any email in a while i've been real busy and running around all over the place. Both dogs are doing excellent! I attached 2 pictures of each of them.
The 2 with "bad boy" are from today. He has got real big! Look at the size of his ears!! haha. I have him trained very well and have been doing trial type drills with him. Everyone that I do the drills with are very impressed with him and always ask where I got him from.
 the "work dog" has been doing extremely well at work and keeps on impressing the Troopers that we work with. He has a VERY good reputation among the Troopers and even other local police agencies down here. I sent 2 pictures of him. The picture with him laying on top of the wooden crate is a large amount of marihuana that he found during a drug bust. It contains over 300 pounds of marihuana which is worth several hundred thousand dollars. The picture of the cash laid on the table is money that he and I located during a traffic stop. It is drug money which totaled 1.2 million dollars. You can probably understand why I say he's doing so well!!
      Again, thank you for the 2 best dogs that i've ever had!

     This was "the Bad Boy"
Showline/ DDR

(sorry I am putting this on a seperate post on a brag thread, because I am extremely happy about the e-mail)

i wasnt trying to be insulting either but the rebuke of "you don't know what yr talking about" by people that don't even know what the other person knows gets a bit much, and is usuallly made by breeders trying to put a spin on things, not saying you are.

cheers

wallacepayne has/had a wl/sl mix that i liked a lot. pretty dog with crazy drives for work. I think its name is Paco.

what about karl fuller and his kennel kirschental........he produced working dogs combined with sieger quality looks.................

I think that the fact this question has been asked shows how far from the true German Shepherd that breeding has gone. It's very sad. Why should there be such a thing as 'working line' or 'show line'? there is a breed standard, and the breed standard requires that the dog's temperament is excellent, capable of living as a family pet, while having the courage and intelligence to work in any of the disciplines such as tracking, manwork, defence, rescue, etc. If people don't want an intellligent dog, then don't buy a German Shepherd. Breeders shouldn't be trying to change the character of the breed to suit the market.  At the same time, breeders and judges shouldn't be allowing exaggerated and strange conformations, just to be fashionable.  Again, stick to the breed standard!

I am breeding long haired GSDs from a truly excellent German line, von Arlett. I wouldn't consider for a second breeding with a working dog who hadn't won at shows. My choice of stud dog will depend on lots of factors, but he will definitely need to be a German Shepherd according to the breed standard. Anything else will result in an eventual dilution of the quality. All the von Arlett dogs are worked to an extremely high level - SchIII most of them. My bitch is brave, courageous, prey driven, guards well, works well, and is a friendly outgoing sociable animal.  The dog she's been mated with is the same.  Their puppies will be German Shepherds. Real ones. 

how many types of gsd are there? IMO WGSL DDR American (i dont even know, are their american wl?)........someone correct me if im wrong but in a nutshell, u have these 3 types because, during the division of germany u had DDR Deutsche Demokratische Republik and they took the GSD and used them for work(guarding consentration camps, attackin enemy soldiers......). the less hostile Western germany (wgsl) started showing their dogs, and to attempt to preserve the dogs work traits, they also did sch.   after war, american saw these wonderful dogs and took some home (america) @ some point some americans put their wants above the dogs needs and started to do WTF type breeding to keep a certain look which also breed the working drive out of most ASL GSD'S. I have been told by MANY, and thats y i went the route i went (2 WGSL "From GERMANY" hand picked, and picked up by me) as a whole they say this ASL=watered down BS, WGSL=great dogs for most ppl wanting more than watered down BS, DDR=for expirenced ppl only, if u get a good(high drive strong nerved........) ddr, and u are not qualifyed it will drive u crazy and u will end up putting it in a shelter, after ruining its life...........................i will get 2 where i wanna b @ WL sables, im going to learn all i can over the next 15 years with my 2 wgsl, then God willing graduate up.



PLS DONT LET THIS TURN INTO SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHAT IT IS, im not saying anything about ur dog, i know ur dog is the best dog on earth...........just wanna see what ppl have to say about the opinion i have formed thus far......



Pls feel free to point out any mistakes i have made in my (loose) fact, as well as your own opinion on the whole thing

eddy
Karl maintained two almost separate types of dogs, 
one type was basically shown in the SV conformation ring,
the other was maintained as active herding lines competing
in the HGH trials. Many years back the lines were one and the
same, but there came a split, even Karl recognized that.
That's really not the topic at hand though, the reality is, 
for someone to do a show & working line 'cross', it does
require a whole lot of knowledge of what the lines will bring
to the table, and it requires a long term end plan or goal, not 
just a one time breeding. Most serious-and by serious I mean 
the breeder that has a long term plan in mind, and doesn't 
deny the fact the progeny of such a breeding may be a total wash,
they also train and title their dogs, and have success in getting the
progeny into working homes where people will do the same, well, 
they know that they cannot just put a showline and a workingline 
together and thats IT. They know it will take careful thought into
going back into that resulting progeny and moving forward. 

If one is going to do a SL-WL breeding, hopefully they have a long
term goal in mind, otherwise, it really is better to just find a suitable
breeding partner of 'like type', afterall, if the goal is just to produce 
puppies for sale, why not increase your odds of a uniform litter etc.

there is one thing i see though. and its that detection dogs are also labs, golden ret, etc.... detection dog only is not enough for me. show me one that that is a kick ass dual purpose dog and ill give you KUDOS. most sl/wl crosses ive seen just dont have that in them. there are a few. hell even a few solid sl dogs are. but they are far and few between.

the reality is, for someone to do a show & working line 'cross', it does
require a whole lot of knowledge of what the lines will bring
to the table, and it requires a long term end plan or goal, not 
just a one time breeding.
  Should this not be the case for ANY breeding though?  My last three GSDs have been WL, SL, WL and the SL is by far my favorite and the best representative of the breed.  Just because the pedigree is "pure" for one type of line does not ensure anything either.  Why would a breeder not put the same amount of forethought and research into a WL/WL or SL/SL breeding?

I do think the SL/WL cross debate tends to get blown out of proportion.  I think they are pretty rare.  I'm talking about decent dogs/breeders having a go at it, not John Q Public who is breeding random pet quality dogs in his back shed and selling them on Craigslist.  I can't remember the last time I've even seen a SL/WL cross in any of my training clubs or GSD events I regularly attend.  Most people won't touch it with a ten foot pole, breeding or buying.