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by 1020ma on 01 February 2013 - 23:02
Ive seen it done succesfully, though ive seen it do nothing. you cant just mix a 100% show x 100%work and create a super dog. the first litters are usually "junk" (by junk i mean, not what the breeders want) not enough breeders take the time to do generations and generations of elaborate crosses. it would be like designing a new breed, which takes time and money and most breeders dont like to waste time and money. PLUS, the German Shepherd does not need to be saved.. It is a great breed. just too many stupid people involved with it, they populate it with dogs that look a like german shepherd but do not act like one.
by eddyelevation on 01 February 2013 - 23:02
nice...solid looking dog.........love the colour too
by kitkat3478 on 06 February 2013 - 13:02
I didn't abandon ship, I just goy busy this past weekend.
To answer a few of your questions dogz, I have found 5 of my pups that have OFA'd. Out of many years, I have probabably only produced 10-12 litters. I am not sure how many my sister has (she also did the showline DDR mix).
I DO keep back pups from my breedings, some I have used in my breeding program, some I do not. Out of MY lines, I am coming into 4th generation show/work mix.
I have also bought a few new dogs in the past 5 years to incorporate into my dogs so I can go back onto showline in a mixed pair and also DDR into mix pair.
All the new dogs I have brought in, go back 5-6 generations to the same lines I am breeding now, (for the DDR I like Grafental and for the show I like Weinerau/Arminius).
I have one dog that I know is a Dual Purpose Police K-9 on active Police patrol now, that is doing extremely well, one dog in training for police work, and 2 that were were just born that are designated for police work. if they make it or not is yet to be seen. BUT all of which are show/DDR mix.
I also have straight showline that I plan on keeping straight showline and of them, I have strict standards that I adhere to in my breeding program.
If I were to produce even one hock walker or roach back, I think I would hang it up.
I do NOT like the direction the NEW AND IMPROVED showline have taken.
I have dogs that are only in their 4th generation from Eros V Malvenburg that I kept in my breeding.
When I purchased my DDR girl, I could just have easily have bought a fancy red and black showline to add to the mix. I try to maintain a well balanced, well structured dog, not for the love of money, but for the love of MY dogs, and the breed.
And yes, well most of my pups go to pet homes, I believe a pet persons money is just as important to them as a sport person money to them.Regardless of whom the pup is bred for, they are entitled to a well structured, great temperment affordable dog.
My DDR female just had 11 pups, from a mating with my Bullinger boy, and yes, these pups are harder to place because they have proven to be very high drive dogs, (but with excellent temperments and conformation). In my opinion, "the best of both worlds"
To answer a few of your questions dogz, I have found 5 of my pups that have OFA'd. Out of many years, I have probabably only produced 10-12 litters. I am not sure how many my sister has (she also did the showline DDR mix).
I DO keep back pups from my breedings, some I have used in my breeding program, some I do not. Out of MY lines, I am coming into 4th generation show/work mix.
I have also bought a few new dogs in the past 5 years to incorporate into my dogs so I can go back onto showline in a mixed pair and also DDR into mix pair.
All the new dogs I have brought in, go back 5-6 generations to the same lines I am breeding now, (for the DDR I like Grafental and for the show I like Weinerau/Arminius).
I have one dog that I know is a Dual Purpose Police K-9 on active Police patrol now, that is doing extremely well, one dog in training for police work, and 2 that were were just born that are designated for police work. if they make it or not is yet to be seen. BUT all of which are show/DDR mix.
I also have straight showline that I plan on keeping straight showline and of them, I have strict standards that I adhere to in my breeding program.
If I were to produce even one hock walker or roach back, I think I would hang it up.
I do NOT like the direction the NEW AND IMPROVED showline have taken.
I have dogs that are only in their 4th generation from Eros V Malvenburg that I kept in my breeding.
When I purchased my DDR girl, I could just have easily have bought a fancy red and black showline to add to the mix. I try to maintain a well balanced, well structured dog, not for the love of money, but for the love of MY dogs, and the breed.
And yes, well most of my pups go to pet homes, I believe a pet persons money is just as important to them as a sport person money to them.Regardless of whom the pup is bred for, they are entitled to a well structured, great temperment affordable dog.
My DDR female just had 11 pups, from a mating with my Bullinger boy, and yes, these pups are harder to place because they have proven to be very high drive dogs, (but with excellent temperments and conformation). In my opinion, "the best of both worlds"
by LOVE THY SHEPHERD on 06 February 2013 - 20:02
Good for you kitkat
by GSD2727 on 08 February 2013 - 20:02
KitKat - if you do not have a website, can you share the names/pedigrees of these dogs you are producing? I would be curious to see the show x ddr pedigrees you are breeding.
by GSD2727 on 08 February 2013 - 20:02
As for working x show crosses... Just depends I guess.
My foundation bitch was a working x show cross. You can see her pedigree here. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dog.html?id=120782 She accomplished A LOT for me... she also had two brothers that were working police dogs, another sister that was a SchH1. Not sure what the other siblings did.
I bred Libby back to working line males... she produced police dogs, service dogs and SchH dogs.... including her SchH3 daughter that I kept back and bred. I also bred her to working line studs, although the sire of my D litter was actually 1/4 show lines also. Again, she produced dogs working in Police, SAR, SchH, etc... The female I kept from my D litter (which is basically 1/4 show 3/4 working) - her first litter (working line sire) is just turning 9 months old, but so far I love them and they are doing great.
I dont know, I have seen some awful nice working x show mixes (I am only talking German lines here, NOT American show lines).... and many times there are show lines mixed in back in a "working line" dog's pedigree, some just do not realize it.
Are there crappy ones too? Sure... I think as others have said, just depend on the dogs involved. But I will say I couldn't have been happier with my working x show female, couldn't have been happier with what she was herself and also couldn't have been happier with what she produced. I am happy to have her daughter, granddaughter and great granddaughter hanging out with me today :)
Valerie
My foundation bitch was a working x show cross. You can see her pedigree here. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dog.html?id=120782 She accomplished A LOT for me... she also had two brothers that were working police dogs, another sister that was a SchH1. Not sure what the other siblings did.
I bred Libby back to working line males... she produced police dogs, service dogs and SchH dogs.... including her SchH3 daughter that I kept back and bred. I also bred her to working line studs, although the sire of my D litter was actually 1/4 show lines also. Again, she produced dogs working in Police, SAR, SchH, etc... The female I kept from my D litter (which is basically 1/4 show 3/4 working) - her first litter (working line sire) is just turning 9 months old, but so far I love them and they are doing great.
I dont know, I have seen some awful nice working x show mixes (I am only talking German lines here, NOT American show lines).... and many times there are show lines mixed in back in a "working line" dog's pedigree, some just do not realize it.
Are there crappy ones too? Sure... I think as others have said, just depend on the dogs involved. But I will say I couldn't have been happier with my working x show female, couldn't have been happier with what she was herself and also couldn't have been happier with what she produced. I am happy to have her daughter, granddaughter and great granddaughter hanging out with me today :)
Valerie
by johan77 on 09 February 2013 - 01:02
Mixes between working and showdogs from the period around the late 80s is not so uncommon, and if they prodoced good I would call them workingdogs, especially since those dogs was breed often to other good workingdogs and today the showline part is only a name on a paper a few generations back. But it´s seems to me to you are making it harder than you have to, if doing such crosses today because it´s easier to find proven workingdogs in the workinglines, and the structure of todays showlines is not really what many workingdog strive for either.
It´s also pretty subjective what someone consider a good dog for working, I know at least one breeder that tried to mix the lines but stopped because the liiters produced didn´t have the complete package in health and character, and this was about 15 years ago. Not saying all workinglines are good, also there people have certain qualities they look for that not all dogs have, even if they are from workinglines.
One cross that produced good was this one, a dog who have showlines on his mothers side I guess we can call it, but that was some years ago nowdays,
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dog.html?id=387214
It´s also pretty subjective what someone consider a good dog for working, I know at least one breeder that tried to mix the lines but stopped because the liiters produced didn´t have the complete package in health and character, and this was about 15 years ago. Not saying all workinglines are good, also there people have certain qualities they look for that not all dogs have, even if they are from workinglines.
One cross that produced good was this one, a dog who have showlines on his mothers side I guess we can call it, but that was some years ago nowdays,
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dog.html?id=387214
by kitkat3478 on 09 February 2013 - 02:02
by kitkat3478 on 09 February 2013 - 02:02
Johan- that pedigree is VERY similar to what myself and my sister started with.
The DDR seems to go very nicely with "those"showlines. We started with an Eros Malvendurg showline male and mated him to a Flex Blauen Modenessor daughter, and built from there, back onto showline.
My litter I have now is from Xolton V Bullinger bred to my Full DDR female Kali V Ludwickseg, and those are some beautiful dogs with great temperments, excellent pigment and super drives. Highly trainable and very eager to please.(I also stick with straight showline to showline, it all depends on the dog(s), and what I am breeding a particular litter for). All are preplanned with optimal health, temperment and structure in mind).
I am breeding back to some of my original lines, which come back on the dogs I have very detailed, personal knowledge of including 100% frree of some of these genetic health problems of today,(DM,EPI, Mega E and excellent hip records).
I have had wonderful luck with all my dogs!
The DDR seems to go very nicely with "those"showlines. We started with an Eros Malvendurg showline male and mated him to a Flex Blauen Modenessor daughter, and built from there, back onto showline.
My litter I have now is from Xolton V Bullinger bred to my Full DDR female Kali V Ludwickseg, and those are some beautiful dogs with great temperments, excellent pigment and super drives. Highly trainable and very eager to please.(I also stick with straight showline to showline, it all depends on the dog(s), and what I am breeding a particular litter for). All are preplanned with optimal health, temperment and structure in mind).
I am breeding back to some of my original lines, which come back on the dogs I have very detailed, personal knowledge of including 100% frree of some of these genetic health problems of today,(DM,EPI, Mega E and excellent hip records).
I have had wonderful luck with all my dogs!
by GSD2727 on 09 February 2013 - 04:02
KitKat, what is your kennel name?
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