changing the stacking pose of the german shepherd?? - Page 2

Happy Legs, yes that's what I was thinking of.  Never used them, only heard about them for other breeds.

I guess I'm not opposed to changing the GSD stack but I don't get why?  How would it change how we evaluate their conformation or would it change at all?  It's not really all that natural for any dog to stand perfectly still, perfectly square (especially up on a table) but how then do you all propose dogs are evaluated?  Or is it just a way to bash conformation/show ring in general?

Ho hum..
We've all been through this before!!
OP go to the past discussions, to see more of the arguement.
Z... one can not expect a dog to ALWAYS stand in the correct/natural postion. Hence. placing them.  Some are/can be trained to do this on their own. Yes, some SV judges DO ask that the handler let the dog stack it's self.
ABSOLUTELY YES!!! IT IS NATURAL!! Even my working line stands that way all by herself many many times a day.

5 months old here

The point is also, that there are and always will be those who choose to exaggerate the natural stack. Just because they do it (sometimes to try to cover up a fault) does not mean that it makes ALL stacking unnatural.Stacking in general is done so that the judge sees a uniform picture of all dogs in the same pose for comparison as well as evaluation to the standard. If you let them stand just any old way when they stop then it makes comparison and judging the standard much more difficult.
Debby

I'm glad you do it that way, and I don't mean it sarcastically.  it's how it is supposed to be done.  But go to an SV conformation show, when everyone stops going 'round the ring, they stop and bend over and place their dogs feet in all sorts of positions to get them stacked.  Half the pictures of stacked dogs have someone in the picture still holding the dog in that position somehow with feet or hands holding the foot position, and the other half probably have someone edited out in photoshop or they just left the pictre for a second to snap the photo.  I have seen people build elevated blocks to teach a "stack", just little wooden squares and raise them.

I agree the pose is "natural" to GSD's, mine stop and stand similar all the time.  The problem is, hardly anybody lets them stand naturally.
Trust me, as a ring photographer it drives be NUTS!!  Half the dogs never show a proper stack (at least the dog looks like it's in pain, fearful, trying to escape the handler).  I'm supposed to get at least one decent stacked and gaiting shot of every dog and half the dogs never stack looking nice or ever gait at all (walking, pacing, pulling/lunging around...).

My dogs are taught to free stack, and I hand place as well.  They stack on command.

Wesson freestacked


Here's Wesson freestacking at 16 weeks.  Yes, on command


A young Mirada free stacking


Baby Mirada free stacking

Debby's point that:  There will always be people who choose to exagerate
the stack,...that doesn't mean ALL stacking is unnatural.  IMO she is spot on,
just cos some handlers cannot/will not stack properly (without too much man-
handling the dog) or use it to hide conformation failings, does not mean it has
no use, or resemblance to how GSDs balance themselves standing naturally.

Abby, I bet there are times your dogs do stand like this, but because it isn't the
exagerated distance between the rear limbs that is practised in the showring
its much less noticeable.*  Yes of course they do also stand absolutely 4-square
sometimes;  but if a GSD is correct height/length ratio they don't actually look
terribly balanced and comfortable when their back feet are completely level.
Not like being built like some 'square' breeds.
I think the common use of the 'tin cans' referred to is limited to other breeds
in the UK;  pretty sure they are the aids referred to in all that stuff in the dog
press complaining about dogs up on blocks for GROOMING purposes.  [Long
may that difference remain !] 

*  Compare placement of legs in djc's black pup to Xeph's ASL girls ...

djc's dog is almost four square.

I'd like to see SLIGHTLY more space between that puppy's rear feet (it's a very nice puppy, so it's not the puppy I'm picking on).

My ASL girls definitely have more rear.  They exaggerate their stacks when they are young as the learn how to place feet, and pull them closer together as they understand what they're doing to balance better.

Hundmutter,spot on in your explaination of a gsd,standing itself naturally as opposed 2 being posed by a handler.My girl looks like the animal in OP photo but looks totally different when stacked by handlers.Carole S.Rheinmeister gsds (UK).

XEPH:  "DJCs dog is almost four-square."  

That is about 4 - 5 inches of daylight
I can see in between her back feet in that photo.

You wanna see "4-square", look @  Chow-Chows !

The only thing I have a problem with is when the stack doesn't have the dogs standing on their pads of the feet only. That's what the pads were in place for, to help absorb the weight of the dog among other things. If any other part of the dog's  leg is touching the ground it is unnatural or incorrect....jmo.