A new bomber breeding from Parrish - Page 4

And MADE dogs or REAL dogs, BSP/WUSV will show you the nerves of the dogs. Same goes for the BSZS! Just look at Leviathan von der Schiffslache. What happened there??? The crowd attendance at BSZS is huge, much more than BSP/WUSV! Looked great on the homefield though...

Actually, the importance is not so much in the BSP-WUSV etc,
while those are very admirable accomplishments, the real importance
is in what and if the dog can in fact produce better than itself. 

Both Bomber and his brother Bandit seem to be more than capable
at producing very nicely. 
 

Nope. Not interested in whether a mediocre dog can produce better than its mediocre-self. Also, not interested in a mediocre dog that throws something better once in a blue moon. What's important to me is whether a good dog can produce a uniformly-just-as-good litter. Produces nicely? Thanks for the chuckle. Go work a real dog.

I appreciate your comments NWAMike. Glad you registered today just to answer my question

Paul.
I never said competing at a high level shows everything but it does show the dog's ability in a neutral environment. The reason Bomber did not compete is because the owner probably knew he would not look so good and his selling price may suffer. Again who is it that made the determination that Bomber was the best Vito son available? You said, he was better than the others, who made that determination? Maybe it was his owner or the lemmings who lined up to breed to a dog that they figured they could charge a lot for puppies from. Also who says that because a dog competes in the sport means he/she lacks hardness? I have titled dogs since the early 90's and I have seen many hard dogs competing as well as many that are strictly about the routine. Most people don't know because they sit on the sidelines and repeat the breeder propaganda that convinced them to buy a puppy. A hard grip does not mean hardness. Many dogs crush the sleeve and have so many nerve problems that it's ridiculous. On their home field with their helper they look great but change the venue and it's a different story. A lot of people say they want a real dog but have no idea what that is. Most people never test their dogs in an uncomfortable place like a dark room or building and ask them to perform. There the nerve of a dog is tested not just how hard he bites. Bite pressure means very little in testing a dog's hardness. You said enough have seen and heard how great a dog he is but who are they? Not judges, not helpers outside of his own. The people who have promoted this dog are people who have purchased, sold or are buying him or his offspring. The other Vito sons I mentioned have put it out there for the world to see and those who can evaluate a dog can make their determination. On this board you have NWA Mike who has given his opinion of the dog from working him. Unless he has an agenda, that appears to be one man's fair description of the dog and not a breeder, puppy buyer or puppy seller's hearsay account. Lastly who is it that made the determination that he will produce more top dogs? Are you saying that because he was bred  to more females? That is a bold statement to make. If it is working ability I was looking for I would at least want to see it displayed not talked about.I think there are many people world wide who would debate you on Bomber being the better dog than Zico or Hank. Read NWA Mike's post and don't get caught up in the hype. Enjoy your puppy.. 

I watched the Bomber/Mike video , twice. I saw a dog maintaining eye contact when in front of the helper. Also saw the dog showing a lot of power, the helper straining the whole time the dog is on the sleeve. Actually, it appears this dog gave the helper a good workout. Didn't see a dog lacking heart at all. But it was a short clip.

ejax
Like I said "time will tell". Every dog has his day and the video Mike posted, Bomber looked like crap. I agree with that, and if that was the only video I ever seen I would not own anything out of him. I saw Bomber in a way different light then that. Like I said "time will tell" for him and my female "Callie" She has big boots to fill and if she does not fill them I will cull her and look for another., but what I have seen so for I like. I do not have the desire or time to look into all of the dogs to see how many Bomber progeny are out there and how many were at last years BSP or how many will be at next years, but the few I do know about their owners seem to love them. Any how I am always looking for a dog that is too hard too aggressive that most would not have or can't handle.


As far as your experience goes I am proud you have been training and titling dogs sense the early 90's and your trips to Europe I hope you have made a difference in the dog world. I have no need to go along with the my dog is bigger then your dog, but will say this. Sch is a lot of fun and has done a lot for lots of people and for me and their ability to learn about and how to train dogs.  I did that in the 80's-90's and it was fun. But I am not a sport guy and outside a good helper here and there, it does little for what I want. I have yet to see a top sport dog that I would want but I have seen a few BSP losers and way down the list that I like. I really like aggressive dominant dogs.

I do not know Mike but it did appear that Bomber was a bit too strong for him and I would think a courage test that was fast and hard would take him down.

Gary Hanrahan seems to like his two Bomber sons.

Thanks for watching the vid. Again, he clamps down hard. He weighs 100 pounds. What normal sized helper won't strain? :) There is no fight. I like fight!
You say he maintains eye contact with me. There's a difference between a dog that maintains eye contact with lots of active aggression and dogs that do the same with less. You can ultimately qualify the active aggression depending on the quality of eye contact. This is something you will pick up as a helper with more experience. Obviously, Bomber has some degree of active aggression. But to me it's not enough.

Quintus Equidus, Grisu von Makera, Pike del Lupo Nero, Quassimodo vom Rosseleck, Angsbacken's Rosso, Endy von Karthago, Quardes von der Staatsmacht... These are hands down some of the best available producing studs right now. All but Endy having proved themselves at the higher level. Endy's progeny (who are showing up at the higher level) speak for themselves. And Quardes von der Staatsmacht is available in the states... Too bad, most people lack the sense to notice real dogs.

Paul, I don't think Bomber "looked like crap" in the video. To me, he looked like a dog with a helper not matched for him and he was able to overpower the helper so that he was not looking "pretty" on the sleeve. Going behind the helper was the dog finding a weak spot in the helper. I also think the helper didn't help his cause by slapping the dog's hind legs. One other thing I noticed....how many dogs can look good when they're "fed the sleeve" ?

I was not impressed with the work of the dog or the decoy, but I have seen other videos and in person I did like well enough to buy a puppy. Dogs have bad days too.  My thought is, some harder dogs trained in the sport are brought down to title.  Maybe Bomber presumed no threat from Mike and did not have the desire  to fight. I do not get the hit the dog with the whip in the rear legs or feet. 

What I find amusing is those who think they know and find the need to tell you why they know. "If you had more experience" or "I have been to Germany many times" ect.  Trying to make someone else bad (or less) does not make you better.

Part of the problem is there is no tone when written on the forum and another problem is terms used.  To one person "sharpness" is insecure" and to another it is something else. Many people think it is crap because it is not their thing. I like all kinds of working dogs. Birds dogs, rabbit dogs, Cattle dog, Seeing eye dogs and even Sch dogs I like to watch all kinds of working dogs, but I do not want to own any of them. There is a great value in all of them and I am impressed with the best of all of them and their trainers.  But I really like my kind of dog the best.