which GSD's are the most titled in history? - Page 11

Gsdstudent....there were many breeding programs in the US in the sixties that had been developed for more than one or two generations. Dogs on both sides of the pond worked....most police and military dogs of that era were from American lines. Sport hadn't started in this country, and the same dogs that participated in the show ring had litter brothers and sisters that became police or military dogs....now the show lines on both sides of the pond are seldom seen in police,military or farm herding. And that's with and without supervision....that is what posters like Johan and myself have seen evolved....don't kid yourself.

good point johan. never thought about it like that..............malinois look all the same without focusing so much on conformation.

anyhow i still believe a good trainer can title anything pretty much he wants on a GSD. its inbred in them isnt it?

Start training several dogs and you´ll know...

never kid myself on this subject.. Here is my question. Is breeding without control worst than breeding with controls and acknowledging that people will always ''slip thru the 'cracks'' less than ideal specimens? autonomy with out vision is like driving a car without opening your eyes on purpose. even with eyes wide open there will be accidents. Even with eyes wide open some people can not drive. That is why there are so many rules to drive. There are logical rules to follow on breeding practices. Some would rather drive drunk. I see 4 directions in the blood lines;1] complete disreguard for any good breeding practice; 2] AKC american sheppard; 3] Working lines; 4] German [high] show lines. Where do you want to be included?

not wanting to turn this into mali thread, but do you really believe they all look alike? I see all different sizes and structures in that breed. And now that they become more popular the crazy autocrats will wreck them also.

To answer your questions:

"Is breeding without control worst than breeding with controls...?" YES
"..., but do you really believe they all look alike?" NO

As long as people believe that their beloved pet is breedworthy only because it´s able to behave like a dog and is able to catch a ball, times won´t change.
Our breed is called "working breed", their are breeding rules, and there is a standard.
But worldwide potential buyers do ask for pets looking like German Shepherds behaving like Golden Retrievers, sleeping most of the day, cute, gentle, and social, but hopefully waking up in time to save ones life...

Breeding without controll I haven´t suggested, as I said HD/ED free and a basic temperament test is still a must for breedingdogs here, but those demands just like the german korung is only the minimum and you have to have higher standards than just passing those if breeding workingdogs, however needing a showrating I see as pointless because it doesn´t say much about if the dog is fit in his body for work. Malinois can vary a little in size etc, but dogs doesn´t need to be clones in my mind, compared to the GSD it´s still more uniform in looks, even among those GSDs breed under the same system in germany there are GSDs that aren´t exactly similar in apperance, hence the working and showlines.

HD/ED and a "basic" temperament test is not much.
What about teeth, testicles, seize, ears..?
What about working ability? Not every potential buyer is able to see the parents of his puppy at work.
As long as breeders aren´t forced to trial and show their dogs, some won´t care.
Not all breeders are dedicated to their breed, and Malinois are "trendy" right now.
Not every Malinois is breedworthy - but without proof of any work - how shall people know?
How will even a young breeder know?

Again: Not blaming the Malinois - there is no difference to any other working dogs including my breed, the German Shepherd!

Are you saying that the majority of show people care about work???    Cough,cough....I know that is inconsistent with what my eyes have beheld....so which do I believe? That show titles and working dogs are synonymous ? C'mon Susie....lol I know just as many breeders that don't title their dogs who produce good stock as I know show breeders that are producing working dogs....it still doesn't pass the smell test....lol

Cliff, don't forget Susie is in Germany, the attitude to getting
working qualifications there is different to the States.