which GSD's are the most titled in history? - Page 9

Gustav, although your post made me smile, you surely know that there is no more KKL1 and KKL2, only KKL...
Sometimes even SV tries to better some things...

People who don´t breed survey their dogs often either don´t title them ( in the best case out of laziness, but worse, out of lack of working abilities ) or don´t show them ( again: laziness, or out of lack of conformation ).

As soon as a dog is titled and show rated a breed survey should be no problem - so, why not ?!?

I´m neither interested in puppies out of good looking dogs that didn´t prove any working ability nor am I interested in puppies out of " true" working dogs without proof of conformation ( not talking about VA ratings here, but I really don´t want to buy a puppy out of over/undersized parents with missing teeth, over- or undershot, curly tales, yellow eyes, missing testicles, and so on...

As said before a German Shepherd able to achieve a G rating is able to breed survey, working- or showline doesn´t matter at all.
All of us, working and showline people, should try to stay within the standard, otherwise there is no more reason for any breed.

There are late night trials, there are oversized V-rated dogs, but this is NOT the norm. The standard and the breeding rules don´t fake, PEOPLE do.
I just heard about a police officer convicted for bank robbery, but I´m not willing to believe that this is normal practize for police officers...

Back to the topic - I don´t believe in quantity, but overall quality.

I'm not a child, I don't need "supervision", thank you very much.  And supervision really hasn't done much overall,  considering humans are in charge.

I have a little bit of everything in my house.  I don't do schutzhund.  I am not physically capable, and quite frankly, I hate tracking.  I do a lot of other things though, including herding (hoping to put a DC on my bitch).  I also have many good, knowledgeable friends that give me insight on pedigrees so I can expand my knowledge and hopefully pair dogs accordingly.

I'm a Virgo and as such tend to be very analytical and logical....just trying to make sense of what I read and what I see. When the two consistently match....it makes sense to me......when I read or hear one thing, and do not consistently see it, I get confused, so now I will take notice at my next shows and trial to give me a better understanding.

@ Susie....why did my post make you smile....be honest now....lol

I´m always honest...
Recommended / suitable for breeding.
While reading this implements an easy choice for every breeder, in reality it happened to look like this:

1. Very good conformation/very good working abilities = KKL1
2. Very good conformation/mediocre working abilities = KKL1
3. Mediocre conformation/very good working abilities = KKL2

Most (but not ALL ) of the breed wardens tend to favor conformation about working abilities. The change in the breed standard was an attempt to better this.
In real life time will show - but for breeding decisions people never should believe in written statements only - as soon as people are involved there might be a discrepancy between theory and practice.
For me that´s the main reason why I want to see dogs "in real".
Titles are not the end of all, but at least they are a step in the right direction. I don´t believe people telling me about the "great working abilities" of their dog without any proof.
Agility, fly ball,  SAR ( to be continued ...)  do show me that the dog might have play drive, stamina, maybe have a loving and caring owner, but these titles don´t show me anything about WORKING ABILITIES or CONFORMATION we ask for in a German Shepherd.
Honest enough ...???

Look at the malinois, not breed under any regulations considering conformation or workingtitles, yet most looks like a malinois and their workingability seems not have been hurt by that.Working breeders not doing the breedsurvey is because they don´t need a showrating to see the dog has a functional structure for work, don´t know how it works in other countries by you can´t register a litter with serious genetic faults like missing testicles etc anyway, dogs with serious lack of teeth or other details that affects the workingability are not likely to get many breedings.

Is this dog to faulty to be breed, didn´t pass the conformationpart of the korung, but he still works at 8 years and are healthy, would a dog like this be hard to get thru the conformationpart of the german korung just based on his looks and structure?

Not to blame the Malinois, but the split within this breed is ( in my very personal opinion ) at least as big as the split between Alsatian and German Shepherd, and they do have a lot of inherited deseases, too.
No difference to the German Shepherd - some people look for working ability, some look for conformation only, and some "produce"....
Groenendael, Tervueren, Lakenois are already lost for working...

Forgot to mention - why should the German Shepherd you showed NOT pass the conformation part of a breed survey? (Teeth/testicles/HD/ED/size ?)

The showmalinois and the working is obviously splitted just like the GSD, maybe not so much in structure but in character, those malinois breed in belgium for their sport seems to look similar to me in type even if conformationratings isn´t used I suppose.

That dog didn´t passed because of beautydetails or some minor "structural fault", not because he had healthproblems or lack of teeth. I don´t mind people having their dog showed, but the ratings means nothing if the better graded dog in reality are less suited for working hard. Another dog that didn´t passed, don´t know why but he has been used for breedings so his faults are not healthrelated like HD/ED, testicles, doubt they used him if he was toothless also,

Thx Susie....though we may not always agree, I do respect you for seeing the breed honestly for what it is (without being defensive), and therefore possessing the ability to have intelligent and honest dialogue on problems of the breed. People like you have the potential, in my eyes to change direction of breed, others still haven't figured out that many of their beliefs and practices are not reflecting in a better dog except for occaisionl exceptions.