Why can North American GSD breeders never seem to breed world class dogs?? - Page 1

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bubbabooboo

by bubbabooboo on 08 May 2013 - 17:05

After WWII Germany and most of Europe lay in ruins.  The German Shepherd breed probably had less than 20% and perhaps as little as 10% of the dogs survive the war in Europe.  After the end of WWII their were probably as many German Shepherds in North America as in Germany.  Americans imported a lot of German Shepherds after the end of WWII because Rin Tin Tin and other GSD were popular heros in television and movies.  The dollar was strong and the Mark was weak so German breeders were sending dogs to the USA during a time when the German economy was trying to rebuild.  So I would argue that after WWII there was a period when North American GSD breeders were playing on a level playing field with the Germans, Czechs, DDR and other European GSD breeders.  Today when a national level competition is held in the USA for almost any dog sport that the GSD competes in the vast majority of dogs competing and certainly most of the winners are European bred.  European bred in this case means born or bred in Europe or the first generation prodigy of said GSD dogs.  A lot of hot air has been expelled by various GSD breed organizations about who is protecting the GSD breed but top competitors from all of these organizations import their dogs from Europe.  Why after all this time do North American breeders seem incapable of breeding world class GSD dogs that can compete with the Europeans??

Mystere

by Mystere on 08 May 2013 - 17:05


by beetree on 08 May 2013 - 18:05

LOL
 

Rik

by Rik on 08 May 2013 - 18:05

I think it's because the Germans are more experienced beer drinkers.

by ipoguy on 08 May 2013 - 18:05

  Interesting post/question. I have often pondered this myself. It is probably not true uniformly, but there is certainly a trend. We have a lot of good dogs and a lot of very smart and dedicated people, so what is the issue? I wonder if geography is not a big hindrance. Europe is very small and so if you have a dog in Belgium that you want to breed to a dog in Germany, it is not that far to  drive. Here the distances can be vast. Not very easy to get a dog from say California to New Hampshire. Not saying it is the only factor but it sure doesn't help!

bubbabooboo

by bubbabooboo on 08 May 2013 - 19:05

Until 1990 Europe was not so easy to get around in either.  The Eastern block (DDR, Czech, etc.) developed some excellent bloodlines under horrible economic circumstances.  I am thinking where are the American bloodlines that go back like the European bloodlines even to 1990 ??  The present day GSD is a post WWII creation based on the GSD that were alive at the end of WWII in all countries around the world. 

by Blitzen on 08 May 2013 - 19:05

Because the best dogs stay in Europe, always have? Maybe we've never been on a level playing field, we just thought we were because we were told so?  Lately there have been a number of posts here stating that the Europeans won't sell their best dogs to the US. No chilled or frozen semen allowed, no dual sired litters. If you want to use a European dog, the bitch must go there. It doesn't look to me like a system that is designed to benefit breeders in the US.

by Blitzen on 08 May 2013 - 19:05

All else beng equal, then maybe it's time to consider the skill of trainers in Europe vs that of trainers in the US. Different methods of training? A better support system?

momosgarage

by momosgarage on 08 May 2013 - 21:05

I think the problem is a lot simpler than most realize.  In Europe, I suspect that post WWII, there was still some strong cultural traditions of "doing what your parents and grand parents did" for a living.  Also I'd bet my house that post WWII, even with the destruction of entire industries, that Europe simply had a stronger apprentice tradition than the United States.  What I mean is this: a European cobbler, for example, was probably FAR more likely to take a stranger in under his wing and teach him the ropes of the business, than say an equivalent skilled American cobbler, who would want to hoard his knowledge and the customers that come with it.  My guess is that, post WWII the USA dogs were probably every bit as good as the Europeans.  So why the decline today?  First the kids of the top breeders in the USA likely had no interest in the dog business and moved off to be a factory worker in the big city making more money, so when Papa and Mama die, so does the knowledge.  Second,  I personally have always felt that the USA is the home of the "trade secret" concept.  What does that mean?  It means than people with rare or specialized knowledge generally take it to the grave and don't pass it on if their kids have no interest in learning it.  In my experience successful Americans who are nearing the end of the road in their careers or life are VERY reluctant to give business related insider info or trade secrets to someone not perceived as "kin".  Combine that with offspring with no interest in the dog world and "POOF" the knowledge is lost forever.  Its American culture that squandered the level playing field you speak of, not breeding stock or bad breeding practices.  Essentially in the USA new breeders have to reinvent the wheel every decade or less because some "old codger" doesn't want to teach anybody anything about breeding, for a multitude of xenophobic reasons (fear of competition, pure selfishness, arrogance, etc).  Also there is another minor issue regarding breeding methods devised by "wives tales, "mythology" or "superstition" rather than science or good old fashioned American agricultural know how.  You don't see horses with the rampant issues we are experiencing with breeding in the USA.  Dog breeders could learn a lot from horse breeders, but since everything is a "family" or "trade Secret", I'd just expect "the wheel" to just continually be reinvented erroneously rather than improved.  Its only going to get worse

by beetree on 08 May 2013 - 21:05

LOL. I am so glad Bubba admitted to a Cold War. How young is everyone who wrote more than eight sentences? Thinking
There is a history of American SL dogs with lines such as Bubba seeks to un-Earth. I can think of a few that would fit his requirements. There
are a few "key studs" of the time period that leaked through. 





 


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