what so good about a calm full grip?? - Page 1

yeah you read on google that the gsd holds the unruly sheep in place with a calm full grip whatever, but we all know that me, you and everyone else's gsd's have never seen sheep up close in any practical situation (the herding instinct test does not count for anything, it is big zero) and yr dog will either piss bolt in the other direction if a sheep came towards it or it would run straight into a bunch of sheepses it is supposed to be protecting and go on a random killing spree.

the gsd is no longer a sd,  german, french, hungarian or from botswana land.

so when in the real world does a calm full grip have a survival advantage in a ppd role over a slashing, ripping multiple bite??


ok let us all hope and pray that we never actually need to test the millions of gsd that people own because it is "protective" and "will" protect them and their family BECAUSE it is a gsd(cough, cough).

thoughts?

Grip reflects the state of mind.

Margaret N-J
 

Maximum points!

LMAO @ "Maximum points !"

I thought this might be a good thread, just by reading the question, but then the thread owner kinda rants a little after a good question. Two good answers. 1st answer with insight; '' grip reflex the state of mind'' . Bad grip = conflict. Maybe between dog and handler or perhaps between dog and agitator. Good grip = confidence? . A full grip without power might be a low drive dog.  An involved GSD person will look at more than just the grip.    2nd answer '' full points'' . You must have all good grips for full points but that is not the only thing being looked at. Grips are only part of the picture in points. You can get a zero in todays sport with a full , hard, calm grip. Just watch what the judge does when that full, hard, grip is not released after 3 commands! I hope and pray that I never need to protect myself with my dog, my gun, or a base ball bat. Just look at current events for my reasons. If my sport dog is a deterrent with just his presence I am content.

i think it started out whit the fact that in old school dogs those who had natural full and calm grips often had extremly hard grips, when i started it wasn't uncommon for helpers in belgian ring to add 2-3 extra pieces of protection under their suits and even then comming of the field all red,blue,purple etc...
full and calm grips are often trainned, the extreme hard grips used to be common, sadly these days it apears this natural quality seems to dissapear every generation more and more and for breeders it's no longer a selection issue when they select a stud
but it's true those dogs often have a DNA caused ear problem, especially when the command out comes they often appear to have a very selective hearing problem

must be something sport folks are into?  or maybe breeders of the world standard for working dogs across the globe have been into for over a century.  and suprisingly enough, almost every top level dog I've had the pleasure of working has had a propensity to bite full and hard.  

Gripping behavior isn't just about points.  If you're breeding dogs you should know this.  and of course there is a lot more to breeding than just grips.  Why does everyone these days seem to want to put all their eggs in one basket about everything? 

The points comments were sarcasm, I'm sure.
But when you see a dog hanging from a sleeve with front legs hanging lifelessly and the dog looking like it only has one functioning body part, it's easy to be sarcastic about the issue of 'calm, full'. Where's the fight expressed through animated body movements, you know, like front legs grabbing to help subdue the opponent, which is a no- no in the world of sport, I know. And the dog truly attempting to "stop the escapee", by setting back and wrestling, rather than hanging on for the ride like a tick, same thing during the 'drive'. A dog's grip is not necessarily lessened if the dog is participating with more than his calm grip. But you already know this, so I'm not intending to talk down to you in any way, but that's why the " maximum points" is appropriate. Judges don't like to see a dog participate with true fight.

I don't believe that to be true for a second.  98 at the BSP, I think judges don't mind.  I think it's more of an excuse coming from lazy helpers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaxmqxmrCAo

Escape bite at about 1 minute.  Feet all over him fighting the escape, before every out feet wrapped, back transport, legs wrapped, etc.  

Dogs can wrap me whenever they want, except for when they're supposed to out, then it's feet off.  

I can't help it if people use one singular element of a dog to define what that dog is.  It was kind of the point I was trying to make.  The grip shouldn't be the be all and end all, but if you're dog is  fucking piano player, but has "over the top drive", but can't  work with a clear head, that says something too.  There's more to a dog than that, but it doesn't mean it isn't worth anything.  It is actually pretty important on the grand scale of things.