German rules for German Shepherds - Page 1

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susie

by susie on 16 July 2013 - 14:07

I know it´s difficult, I know there have been several debates about sense and nonsense,
BUT
You do buy dog after dog out of my country, because you, the buyer does believe you´ll get the better dog - WHY?

I am German - that said, for me it´s common sense to trial, show, and breed survey a German Shepherd before breeding or just for fun.
This includes HD/ED x-ray, DNA, AD, and BH.
Without ANY of this no pedigrees...

First of all, I did visit the USA for decades, I have seen generations of good dogs, imported and bred by USA ( first generation ).
It´s a pity there are almost no stable bloodlines, almost no breeders breeding for more than two generations on a high level ( be it show- or working line ).

You always claim you are a "free" country, people shall decide by themselves,
BUT
this project doesn´t work ...

I am pretty aware that the German regulations are not the end of all, but at least they are a lot more than nothing.
As soon as the German regulations would be the duty for pedigrees ( and this decision is up to the clubs, not up to AKC ) all the backyard breeder wouldn´t be able to make money any more and a lot of them would vanish.
There would be more clubs, because the breeders would need to train and title their dogs.
There would be less German Shepherds, because there are several, that are not breed worthy following these regulations.
There would be a standard, no more hearsay, or "I told you, so it has to be" any more.
In the result people would start to understand this wonderful breed a little bit better, and they would know how to select.

I know, that now there will step in a lot of people telling me, that they do follow the German regulations - it´s not about you, it´s about the thousands of breeders who don´t care a sh++ about standard, health, and/or working abilities of this breed.
You don´t need brokers, you don´t need "professional" trainers, everything you need are people willing to train and select.

Maybe all of this sounds pathetic, but I really wonder for decades now...it´s up to you to change the rules - why are you not interested?

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 16 July 2013 - 15:07

Well said, Susie.  We in the UK had unfortunately gone much the
same route as the Americans for decades,  eased by the fact that like
AKC our Kennel Club has never been interested in more stringent require-
ments on GSDs (or any breeds), although that is slowly improving.
There have always been British breeders and owners who, having
imported their original stock from Germany, then strove to get their
own kennel foundation continuing to follow the lines of health testing
and working, but they have sadly been a minority of all the people
breeding Shepherds.  Gradually we have seen moves towards bring-
ing the dogs back to their roots, in Surveying and evaluating 'breed worth';
also in both following German 'type' and asking for more qualifications on
the dogs  (BH, AD etc), and in the move towards Grading at Shows, over
the KC's / traditional  "1,2,3+ R" system.  But there are still those who
object loudly to such 'interference' in their 'rights' to breed what they like
to whichever suits them. And those who do not publicly object, but never
the less go on quietly making the same errors.  Sigh ...Confused Smile

Spruell

by Spruell on 16 July 2013 - 15:07

Susie - I am German as well, but now live in the US. AND IN THEORY I agree wholeheartedly with you. However, where I live, we have to commute TWO hours each way to a club that meets at a public location, no club field, only the equipment we can bring to training each time, rain-outs, and so on. No tracking area, ONE trial once a year and trials for other clubs several states away. On top of that, while our helpers are totally committed and selflessly give their all, they did not have mentors to "teach" them. While we are advancing in our training, progress is slow with many setbacks. Seven years ago when I imported my first two GSD's from Germany I HAD NO IDEA there weren't any clubs here and they grew up untrained (untitled). And yes, I did breed them . After finally finding the above mentioned club a couple of years ago, I am trying hard to adhere to the German standard, but find it nearly impossible to do. 95 + degrees make it very hard to train even for AD. Breed surveys and shows are multi-states away, In desperation, in the meantime, puppies get older and remain untitled.I resorted to buying already titled and koerklassed dogs. Which is NOT THE SAME as raising and titling YOUR OWN dogs We do not have trails and shows every week-end as it is in most places in Germany. Consider yourself blessed if you live in a place like that and like the sport of SchH. VERY INTERESTED but feeling DISCOURAGED.

susie

by susie on 16 July 2013 - 15:07

Spruell, I do know about the problems, and I do know it´s not easy, but as soon as breeders are forced to train, show, and title, there would develop more clubs.
After all, there are more than enough German Shepherds in the USA.
If someone interested in breeding really doesn´t find the possibility to title his dogs, it´s sad for him, but almost always no loss for the breed in its whole.

by Blitzen on 16 July 2013 - 16:07


I wouldn't want the AKC telling me which dogs I could breed. AKC is an all breed registry, they are not experts in the breed; how would they know anyway? Hundmutter, who would advise your all breed registry on what needs to be done in order to register a litter (or to exhibit a dog)? How would that panel be selected and by whom? No thanks, it cannot be done with an all breed registry. A breed specific registry like the SV, yes.

You cannot legislate morality and there will always be some who will cheat the system no matter what. The SV's rules don't stop midnight trials, dogs sold to the US for big dollars with titles that don't even know how to platz or fuss, dogs with A stamps that have HD and UAP,  sterile dogs, bitches that are bad mothers and have killed puppies from previous litters, etc. I'm not telling anyone anything they haven't already heard, it happens all the time in the US with German imports. I'm guessing that  the percentage of crap breeders in Germany is about equal to their peers in the US.

In the US it is and always will be up to GSD breeders to do the right thing; personally I don't want to see it any other way.

by Blitzen on 16 July 2013 - 16:07

What would a training club have to do with registering a litter? Give more an opportunity to title before breeding, sure, but they can still breed and register litters from untitled stock. I'm confused.....again.

laura271

by laura271 on 16 July 2013 - 16:07

@Blitzen - If a SV system was put into place in the US (and Canada) then puppies from untitled dogs could not be registered and so there would be more impetus to create IPO clubs.

by Blitzen on 16 July 2013 - 16:07

Yeah, I got that part, but how could an SV system work in the US without establishing a brand new registry specific to the GSD? It will never work with an all breed registry like the AKC. Somehow I have a lot of trouble envisioning enough GSD breeders in the US  wanting an SV type registry to govern their breeding programs. The best I can see happening would be another splinter-type registry like The Continental  Kennel Club that would be specific to GSD's.

susie

by susie on 16 July 2013 - 16:07

Blitzen - in our country you need to fulfill all the regulations - otherwise no pedigrees.
No pedigrees = no big bucks = no reason for backyard breedings.
SV is member of VDH, that´s similar to USCA to AKC.
VDH or AKC don´t make the rules, it´s up to the clubs, no one else.

You said: " You cannot legislate morality and there will always be some who will cheat the system no matter what."
That´s true, in a perfect world we wouldn´t need to lock our home and we wouldn´t need any police dogs...

There will always be people trying to cheat the system - but this wouldn´t be that easy anymore.

by Gustav on 16 July 2013 - 16:07

I imported my first dog from Germany in 1975, my last one in 1990,.....since then I have imported many many pups/dogs but none from Germany. The quality is the same if not better, and quite frankly my current dog and my 9 year old bitch are American bred. I guess I am saying, I can get a good dog from many different countries....after all good dogs are in many different locations.





 


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