Military dogs: GSD vs. Belg Mal vs. Dutch Shep - Page 7

The dept that I consult for just picked up two more dogs yesterday....another Malinois( that makes 4), and a Dutchie. The only GS in the dept is a GS I bred 9 years ago. And people still are believing that our breed isn't losing its place as a working dog....sic,sic........the breed is quickly achieving pet status ....so sad!

today we had a testing day for military dogs 2gsd passed the testing about equal scores but a slightly better score for the dog they didn't take reason: his back was more bananaback than the other dog i asked if he wasn't good enough or what, the anwer i got was that their experience showed that straight backs on average can last longer in service,
so yes he's a good dog and if they had only him as an option there would be no doubt they would have taken him, but they only needed 1gsd so gusmanda i believe this is the answer to your question
good pedigreed GSD most of the time askingprices are ridiculous in terms of service dogs, especially if you know that in general they work slower and last fewer time on the job than a mali
no police/military service will pay those amounts to get a dog if they can get a faster,longer lasting one for less money
who would pay 100.000 to drive home in a volkswagen if a ferrari costs 50.000



 

really sad, indeed. 

how much is price in the equation? If someone started breeding more out of hobby than business, and kept prices on par or lower giving preference to police over IPO enthusiasts, would they stand a chance? 

I thought this was a good read. Clearly states some of the issues that have been discussed in this thread.
http://www.johnsoaresk9training.com/info/gsdarticle.html

http://www.johnsoaresk9training.com/info/sportvsrealdogs.html

Kyle

Good question, Gusmanda...I'd be most interested in the answer myself.

Gusmanda I believe many started out with the right intentions. Then someone offers an interesting amount of money and the best layed plans have been altered. As an example is 3k to 5k per dog enough for the breeder once you calculate food, vet, training time and travel. 10 dogs in this formula, 30k to 50k gross. Provided no dogs get rejected. It may take a saint.

it's not just a dog (unit) acquisition cost but the total cost of ownership, where the numbers have not been too kind for the gsd, and the general momentum in favor of the mali. once you got your first, second, insert your number of HD/ED/DM gsd patients while at the same time the average dutchie/mali (is perceived to have) lost four days, over his/her entire service life, to a pulled groin after a shitty heli jump, it's not hard to see why handlers, trainers, and even more so procurement departments, favor alternatives to the gsd.

there is a telling mini-series about the use of dogs in the bundeswehr, which actually still uses a lot of gsds, showcasing only a mali: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g_jDeYvHII , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P60ltmPeXps, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89G7lKyf3TQ.  last year's "hero of the year", per german dog magazine DOGS,  was the bundeswehr war dog idor, also a mali, http://goo.gl/r94RCR  finally, the bundeswehr service dog site for the "day of the dog" celebration is also mostly featuring mali's, http://goo.gl/nIx917 .  bundeswehr, nato, us military ... at this point, i'd say the momentum pendulum has seriously swung in favor of the mali and it'll pretty much take the derailing of mali health/temperament coupled with a serious increase in TOC for the breed to relinquish its go-to status.


 

The breed is more pet oriented, with pet experts defining standard....not completely but enough so that alternate breeds are sought first for work, and the biggest participation of our breed is show events and pet homes....it is what it is. I remember saying this three years ago on this forum, and some of you rose up in righteous indignation, ( mostly people who don't even deal in training or working dogs), well it was true then and it is more than evident now. The system isn't working......at least not for maintaining the breed for what it was created for.

gusmanda, really good pedigreed mali sometimes we can get them for 1000-2500 euro and than i'm talking about dogs that won't have any problem making it as dual purpose or even special operations if we talk about pedigreed GSD who has all the same quallity's they tend to ask no less than3500- 5000 some even have no problem asking 10.0000 so quite often asking prices are more than 2x the price of a mali, even for a simple ipo1 certified dog they ask 3000-5000 and let's be honest you don't sell a good dog those are often dogs who barely made it true ipo1
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I have a working GSD . I was considering a Mal until I spoke with a group of police K9 handlers with Mals that told me to stick with the GSD as the GSD has an off switch. They told me the Mal are great working dogs but not one of them would want them as a pet. The advice they gave was to get a working line GSD and one of my buddies (K9 Mal handler) hooked me up with a working line GSD breeder.  I love my GSD and he's the smartest dog I have ever owned. I think GSD and Mals are awesome dogs but I do agree that its not easy finding a WL GSD and the Mals still look like the same as they did 50+ years ago.