help..... i need advice on my two 8 month old german shepherd pups - Page 7

Jersey Girl it makes no difference if Vicki is the breeder or not.
 If she used her contract that you both signed and you wrote the check out to her or gave her the money then she is the seller.

That brings up a thought.  From reading what you have written I get the impression you were not yet eighteen when you signed the contract (if you are sorry that is the impression I get)
then the contract may not be binding.  Take her to court.

If you were over eighteen when you signed, still take her to court and get your money back. You may have to give the two dogs back but you will have your money,and you won't have to be worried that you will be out your money and she will have the dogs to resell and make more off of them.   

You may work out a deal that you get to keep them and get a partial refund.

 

Sorry, I'm getting more confused with this by the minute.  The contract says clearly no warranty for any purpose; including breeding. 
So what are you asking for?  A full refund on the female?   Why? 
Because the ears didn't go up in the male, or because you shouldn't breed the female because of the mega-E issue in the brother?  
I think I saw that you paid full price for the female and got the male thrown in for free.  Correct?  So you got two dogs for the price of one? 
And you don't want to give them back, you want to keep them both.  Correct?  
So it must be money you are asking for.  To compensate you for your disappointment that things didn't go as planned? 
Everybody knows buying a puppy or any animal for that matter is a real risk. The more you pay the more you are investing in the risk.  
Just think about how terrible it would be if you breed a litter of pups and 'something went wrong', loosing you tons of money not to mention the mental anguish of seeing them suffer.  Who would you blame for that?  Sorry again that you paid so much for dogs that didn't live up to your expectations and that it didn't work out the way you had hoped.  And, if I've misinterpreted your complaints, well I apologize for that as well.  

Thank you Western Rider( Admiinstrator) 

 i understand all that, it doens't matter that it doesn't matter if she is the breeder or not. I totally agree with you. The fact tho that she put on her webpage a pic of the mom and a pic of the father. I honestly thought those two dogs were her dogs she bred together and were hers. I was unaware that they weren't both her dogs. The one that is hers is the male the female is NOT hers. She said she didn't even whelp them or nothing she said she didn't do anything with them. She helped the women that bred her female to her male out sell them now. Anyone on here can agree with me usually when ur advertising something for sale shouldn't u say whether it is working or in good condition or if ur selling it for a friend shouldn't u put that on there. I understand sometimes it isn't nessarry or people don't think it is is. In anyway shape or form but i think being a reputable breeder YOU as the breeder would post on there that the female is NOT indeed urs and these puppies are a friend of theirs please contact me for details that is what ANY reputable breeder would do i do know that for a fact. That is what i would have done if i bred my female or male to a friend although i wouldnt' because there are alot of complications and headaches with this there really is in my opionon but if i bred my male with someones female and they need help selling the puppies i would specifically put that on my site. I would also inform the seller that these puppies are NOT i do have the sire but i do NOT own the female. She posted the female on her site with the male like they both were hers. Either way that was NOT fair to do to me at all.  Admin. i over 18 honestly yes, however im not a trouble some person how ever your right maybe i could work out that deal with her or something i am NOT sure honestly i do love my DOGS i am going to say it again so EVERYONE that is bashing me knows im NOT a trouble some person and that i don't throw away my animals like they are toys because i do NOT do that. I love my fur balls. Again im a great hearted person here and i guess i get token advantage of being that i am to to nice. I have learned my lesson on trusting people i do NOT know. I am only trusting my friends at this point on. Also i do thank the people on here that are giving me great advice. Some of u were alittle harsh but i understand no offense token. I do understand SOME of u are trying to help me succeed in  dream on what i would like to do rather than deal with this and do this mistake again. i do understand and greatly apperciate it i really do.  Admin i think thats really good advie and i may do that. Although i hate doing such a thing because im not a trouble some person i don't like doing it but then again it may be needed or if she will work things out with me then that is fine too.

Alenor what are u getting confused about if u would like pm me and i can tell u the whole sitaution word for word if u would like. I am not asking for a replacement being that majic forest told me she isn't doing it either way. I understand the risk u take when buying a dog i realize that. Its the fact of that she lied about these being her pups specifically. I do bleieve its only fair that she does work out some kind of agreement with me rather than ya taking the pups back and that is it. Like i said tho i do love my fur balls so again that is hard on me being i put the time in training them and everything else. The thing that upsets me i didn't ask for inbelical inhernias if her ears didn't go up that is fine i still wouldn't bred her because of the week ears but i told majic forest that i wanted to get into breeding and its because of the fact i DID NOT get what i asked for. I asked her and told her specifically i would like to get a puppy but as long as she passes all her penn hip certs and dm test and other stuff i would like to become a reputable breeder she told me that is fine she would but she knew they had hernias and she knew about the gene that can happen with mega e. I m upset that she sold me her and said she is breedable being that she has the hernias and all this rong with her. Although like i said i understand risk happen but the fact of i confronted her about it and told her about it and she acted like she didn't care she knew about the hernias from the getco and didn't say a wod to me until my vet and i seen it when i get her and her brother. yes ok i got a free puppy out of the deal meaning her brother as a companion ok fine i asked her about him and she said she was goign to give him away to a free home being that he has mega e. She said he was diagnosed with it and all so i told her being that i am getting his sister i wouldn't m taking him being that his sister would be with me. Majic forest agreed with me saying that he would be better in a home where his other sibling is.  The fact that i know if i gave her these pups back she would jsut resell them to another home which is unfair to do to a dog when they dont' understand why ur doing that they have feelings to especailyl since they been together thier whole life. Do u think that is fair to tose them around like Toys hoenstly Alenor im curious would u like that done to ur dogs/pups. I don't like it and when i do get into breeding i can tell u this i would take any of my pups back in heart  beat and wouldn't just throw them away like they are a toy. WOW serously thats a bit harsh don't u think? NUMBER ONE Alenor if i had a litter ok and something was rong with the litter and i had to for some reason put them down i would NOT blame anyone i don't know who u think u are thinking u know me and all this when u do NOT and i don't apperciate ur rude comments on that. Im not blaming anyone here all i am saying is that Majic forest sold me a dog and lied about the advertisement of the pups and all this and i told her the problems with them and all this she swears up and down my vet is rong and she don't know what she is talking about and her vet is right and all this stuff. I mean seroiusly. However i can tell u this when i do get into breeding I AM GONNA MAKE DAMN SURE that the litter has no problems that is what being a reputable breeder is all about u make sure when u breed, u make sure ur breeding healthy dogs with no issues. If for some reason out of the blue it did happen i would NOT breed those dogs again. The money isn't a problem ok u think u know me and u do not u know nothing about me in fact u don't know the whole situation u claim ur confused why not ask me the whole situation and talk to me about it first rather than assume u know the whole situation. Im sure others would agree with me. It seems as tho she cares more about the money in this behalf rather than her dogs. Any reputable breeder would agree with me on the advertisement. A true breeder would have told the client about the female not being hers and all this. Oh and by the way majic forest wants to sit there and say all that she is saying about me well let me tell u this. I ALWAYS keep her updated on how my fur balls are doing and let me tell u word for word on what she told me, she was throughly please i take well great care of them and she was so happy with everything. So truthfully i provide a great home for my fur kids always have their health, and their love means everythinto me i put them before anything else so think what u want of me but the REAL people that know me and the real people that are my true friends and that are truly helping me know i am not a bad person at all here. So think what you want of me go ahead i can't change that. However i can say this i spoil my dogs always have always will.
The fact that she would expect me to ship them back to her like they ar nothing to me is bit upsetting honestly. How about u put yourself in my shoes then you would know exactly what i am talking about losing a year old german shepherd ur very first because of where i got him from. Now this. Like i said above i understand it takes risk and when i become a breeder adding new lines u always are taking a risk when u pay alot of a dog its just the point of what she did to me thats all that i am unhappy about. However i didn't come on to FIGHT with anyone i came on here for advice on what i could try to do. Someone asked me who the breeder was so i told them who.

Wow!  Jerzey Girl has so much to say it is mind boggling.

A word for you for the wise as you go on your journey to become a breeder, karma has a way of coming back at you.

If I were your mentor, I would advise you not to own any dogs but to go to anything and everything that is around that might increase your knowledge about training and showing dogs.  Hang out where they train, where they show.  Go to anything and everything that might be available to you and look and see and get to know trainers and breeders, regardless of breed.  Maybe one, will pick you up and mentor you.

Then I would advise you to get your own dog and try to go the whole way with it, regardless of the outcome.  Determination and focus is what you need. 

And then, I would ask myself, do I have the resources that is required to be a breeder.  That means money, stability, help, resources.

If the breeder is willing to take the dogs back, send them to her.  Do it!  Start from scratch and work your way up.  A breeder does not start from having breeding material.  They learn along the way.

Good luck to you!  JMHO.

Good try Western Rider for the thought about under-18 year olds and
contracts !  I don't think JerseyGirl got the reference - she clearly
doesn't watch Judge Judy !   Despite the way she writes,  I have
never believed she had the excuse of being all that young.

@JerseyGirl :  you may not believe this but I do not have a 'down' on you,
and what I have said is meant to help you.   I do not think Alienor
was really confused;  I think you should read that post again, slowly
and carefully, stop worrying about giving people even more detailed
information about what happened, and trying to outguess where they
are going;  instead, heed the sensible advice offered.  That is what I thought
you failed to do, two dogs ago ...  No-one thinks the vendor comes
out of this particularly well, but she does seem to have covered herself
contractually.
 

What Jerzey Girl made you think that this was a breedworthy pedigree from the beginning?  Was the only requirement of the female standing ears and a vagina?  Tell us your breeding program.

Sunshine u know no I dont go by ears and a vagina for your information I go for temperment and health. This is why I dont come on here and ask for help because you people all you love to do is bash people and talk shit. Im orry im not an expert I do have a mentor and I am starting from scratch however I dont just go by what sunshine is saying you people think your shit dont stink well the thing is you all were not experts from the begining I am sure you lived and you learned from your mistakes. As far as two dogs go the first dog was not my fault at all. Secondly you only know so much about that situation. I didnt think it was right to keep the other dog being I had to go thru a major surgery. Soo do me a favor and stop bashing me like that. I have done nothing rong my breeding program will not be about a vagina and ears it will be about health and temperment as well as confirmation. As well as other things the difference is I will stand behind my dogs no matter what. So can we please nock the bashing off please. Im sorry im not an expert like you people im sure you all learned and made mistakes but then again some of you think your god and think that you never made any mistakes. As well said we live and learn from our mistakes. I have learned once again a valauable lesson so no need to rub my face in it like shit ok. Hundermutter I understand u are trying to help and I wasnt saying u were its just u did bash me alittle before which is kinda rong I know what mistake I made so no one needs to rub it in ok. Thank u to everyone else for helping me and giving me good advice. Its greatly apperciated. Hundermuder honestly what is it u have so against me honestly u seem to like wanna pick on me as much as u can. It makes me wonder. The administrator was only trying to help me. Im seriously tired of the rude remarks I really am if u dont have anything nice to say then DONT SAY IT AT ALL KEEP YOUR OPIONONS your self.

Jerseygirl if you want to know the name of the breeder of your pups look at your AKC papers it will tell you.

I and my friend do help each other sell the pups.  If they used my stud and I help with selling I use their contract and if I use their stud and they help me they use my contract.  

Vicki used her contract she may not have been the breeder but she probably was the owner of the pups.

Jersey you want to be a breeder but you keep saying that you don't get rid of your dogs that they live wiht you forever.

A breeder cannot with reason do that. Think how many dogs you would have in ten years.  If you were to have the greatest talent and be able to pick puppies and have 50% of them of breeding quality.then at the start of the Business you would have  

1 male        2 females    at 6 months you would health screen them  50% fail     now you have to buy to make it easy 2 more females  six months you health screen and 50% fail

You have been a breeder for one year you have five dogs and still no pups to sell.   Now the dogs are 30+ months you have health certified and hopefully titled and ready to breed

Wait since you need replacement for your females by the time they are five years at 2 years you need to buy two more female pups so that when your girls are 5 or so you can retire them

Now go back, at 30 months you health screen those two new pups and 50% pass now you need to buy two more  You see where this is going

How many dogs will you own before you sell your first litter. And with all those mouths to feed you will only have two producing females.

If you are going to be a breeder you have to learn to let them go if they do not work out.  Don't forget down the road some pups won't sell and some will come back then what are you going to do.

Some have suggested that you wait to worry about breeding, go to all dog venues you can find and learn from. This is good advice.

May I also suggest that you go back to school take animal husbandry, bookkeeping, web design classes. As you will need to write to your clients, make contracts and write Advertisment classes that will help you with that as well.

Jersy girl you make the assumption that breeders learn by the mistakes they make along the way, this is not how breeding should be learned or attempted. Reputable breeders do not learn by trial and error if your mentor is telling you to go out on your own to find breeding stock, find another mentor. If your mentor is telling you to go on an international forum to complain about a dog you bought, find another mentor. There is a lot of good advice given here I hope it sinks in. You need a mentor who will let you be with them in all that they do. Your mentor seems to be content watching you make mistakes.

Jerzy, I did not judge, you I made recommendations.  If you want to really get somewhere, you must focus on the goal. 

Another piece of advice I would have.  It is obvious that you are a good caretaker of your dogs.  Maybe someone will allow you to adopt a very good retired female from breeding.  Take her out and have fun with her training and understanding temperament.  Learn from her and take with you a picture of what you want to reproduce.

I always feel that when we set goals, we must have a picture in our mind.  This picture is what we should try to accel to.  Then everything seems to fall into place.  And yes, we fall and flounder and learn.

FYI, I had 2 very promising breed surveyed and titled dogs that died before the age of 4 years from cancer within one year of one another.  I cannot tell you the fortune and time involved with such a loss.  I did not go back to anyone and blame them for this.  We are dealing with living beings.  I loved my dogs and I lost them.  I am also grateful for the lessons they taught me.  Yes, I was sad and asked "why me?"  And out of this most curious duplicated tragedy true friendships developed between myself and the breeder of the "line".  Friends forever, not enemies forever. It was a fluke and we move on. 

I wish this for you.  That you move on and take the lessons learned.  Try not to repeat them. 

Best to you and your beautiful dogs.