Caralon's Phantom v Le Barland - Page 2

Ok you all have my curiosity piqued! My girl had 1 dog in her pedigree that had no info on sire. No info on dam... That dog was Caralon's Elizabeth Taylor. Kali had several black dogs on that side of her pedigree...,anyone heard of this dog? Someone once told me that the dog she was bred to's owner remembered her as "a nice little bitch".....I'd sure love to find out more about her!!!

Thanks! jackie harris

Ah shucks! It was Calloways Elizabeth Taylor. Phantom is in Kali's pedigree however. Anyway, if anyone ever heard of this bitch, please let me know, thanks....

jackie harris

Helen "Scootie" Sherlock and Pat Parsons were the breeders/owners of Caralon kennels, circa 1960's and on up.Scootie was well known in the american scene, well respected, and strived to produce the total dog, health, temperament, soundness, correct in structure but could still WORK.

Through a very nice tight linebreeding on Harald, they produced the prolific Hein.

They created new interst in the solid black dogs through Hein's offspring, notably PHANTOM.

They also campaigned other Hein offspring..  Icon and Zee.

As with all of the early ASL, the dogs came from german imports. In this case Axel and R-litter Onasbruckerland.

Too bad the ASL fell into the "lance" trap door...  it would have been nice to see more balanced healthy dogs influence the ASL in the late 60's and 70's...

I remember Phantom, and I think this was just prior to the Caralon Kennels affiliation with the Brothers of New Skete and their service dogs.

I had been a fan of Hein for years when Phantom came on the scene... the common belief before him was that blacks were inferior and lacked the bone, substance and head that was saught by the leaders of the breed.  Phantom really blew everyone's opinions out of the water. He was good size, moved strong and true, and had the bone and head most only dreamed of.   Many people agreed that Phantom was very good "For a black"  but as he continued to show they had to drop the 2nd half.   He produced fairly well in all colors.  In an era where everyone was going crazy for Lance, Hein and Phantom provided a good balance.  (As well as Yoncalla's Mike) to bring back or provide for the substantial GSD in the US. 

     Guess he's why I fell for Black Shepherds, and ended up with my Heart Dog   "Ikon von Wolfstraum" (Grandsires were Xito and Ufo)  Phantom would still do quite well in SV shows today in my opinion.   

Thanks to all who have replied. Some great history stories, here.

I would have liked to know what Gustav's impressions, good or bad are regarding his memories of Phantom and the Monks of New Skete. I am left to guess, and the way I figure, it could go either way?

I know nothing about this dog, nor was I aware he figured prominently in the Shiloh breeding.

Here are the 4 Shiloh foundation bitches:

http://www.shilohshepherds.info/The%20Fabulous%20Four.pdf

My GSD, Star, has two of them in her ancestry. Tina took one look at her puppy picture, and immediately commented: "She looks just like the dogs I used to breed during the '70s!"

When I found Star's Shiloh ancestors, which were many generations back, I was stunned that Tina had been able to see a resemblance! Coincidence, after that many generations? Who can say for sure? But there's no doubt, Tina had a superb eye for a dog!

The current black Shilohs come from a German import, Artus zum Sohrewald. He is not SV registered, but most of his ancestors were. He was registered with an alternate registry for long-coated GSDs, the Altdeutscher Schaferhund Verband - Deutschland.

I am no longer involved with Shilohs. The temperaments have been allowed to go to hell in a handbasket now that Tina is gone.

Okay, did a reverse linebreeding search on him, and came up with only one dog that was probably a New Zion dog:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=530392-caralon-shiloh-of-judeen

"Shiloh' was the name Tina used for her kennels during those years. She changed it to New Zion when she abandoned the American line GSDs and the AKC.

A reverse linebreeding done on this dog produced no results, so Tina did not carry the line forward, nor am I aware of it being in the ancestry of any current day Shilohs. She tried and abandoned many different lines over the years. The New Skete lines were just one of many.

The four dogs above will be found in the lines of all current-day Shilohs and their ancestors.

Kara Lobo of Emmview (Kari)

Portrait of Fabrina (Ria)

Ursa von Ensomhed

Super Sweet Sabrina Selah

Edit: Holy !@@$$!!  LOOK at that linebreeding on Sabrina! NO WONDER she produced so many problems!!  "When inbreeding on Sabrina, some very serious faults seem to come back to the surface..."

 Beetree:  You might want to contact Karen Bostwick (kadamigsd@aol.com).  She has been in schutzhund in the US  since the beginning , and used to breed.  Her breeding stock had a lot of Caralon dogs in back.  

Mystere, you have become a model of restraint! 

As I clicked on this topic, I was thinking, "Oh boy, here it comes!"  She won't be able to resist saying "I told you so!"