Puppies! - Page 4

Deleted...no point in further derailing.

I'm sorely tempted to ask for the whole damn thread to be deleted!    

Anyway, I am done with this thread. I am sorry I posted the pictures.

Please carry on attacking the choices of my friend who can't be here to defend herself!  That's what cowards do...

I wish I could say more, but I will not violate her privacy.

Oh, and in case you're interested, it's been 6 years since she last bred a litter, though she has 2 intact males and another intact female.

"Classic case of the emperor has no clothes"

AMEN BZ, AMEN and AMEN

Kim

What part of becoming a co-owner of the bitch AFTER the fact are some of you not getting?  I don't believe people who can't afford to support the first child they create ought to be creating additional ones, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be cruel to those offspring, or about them.

Show me one place where the OP said she AGREED to this breeding?  'Cause I can't find it. I find where she's said that it wasn't a breeding she would have chosen to do; I find where she emphasized that she didn't come on board as a co-owner until after the breeding took place; but at no point do I see anything that says : "hey folks, look at this great litter the bitch I co-owned produced!"  Co-ownership can be very dicey, and the person who has physical custody of the co-owned dog is in a better position to actually carry out an action, such a breeding a dog or sterilizing it, for example, than the other party listed on the paperwork. I don't know a single thing about the terms or reason for the partnership on this bitch--people do co-owns for reasons that run from as basic as one of them having, and the other wanting, a particular genetic combination in a particular animal, all the way out to as complicated one person owing a debt to another and giving over half-interest in a dog as a way of repayment. [Folks here saw how well THAT can play itself out a few years' back, didn't we?] 

The shit-jumping that went on with 1[Obstinate]GSDawg, at least for my part, had nothing to do with whether they would be breeding their bitch for the 'right' reasons--my issue with them, before they began to insult everyone who responded to their post if they dared ask for more info on said bitch, was strictly on a basis of the ridiculousness of asking which dog is "THE BEST GSD stud in the US", because aside from 'best' being subjective, we all know that the 'perfect match' for bitch A could be the biggest disaster in the world if he covered Bitch B. I actually didn't even ask for the bitch's pedigree--I just asked for more info on the bitch.  And yes, I questioned their experience in the breed and with breeding, because I've yet to come across someone who WAS experienced in both that would post such a ludicrous query on an international message board--unless it was being done as a complete prank. [And if it was the latter, perhaps it would have gone over as such if it wasn't the very first post made on their very first day as a member here.]  Had they just mentioned the bloodlines and linebreeding behind the bitch, if she was weak or strong in the work, if she needed a dog that would correct specific structural flaws, then perhaps the discussion would have proven educational and be what the poster claims to have been seeking. I told them the truth: given what they gave us, the recommendations would likely be for the flavor-of-the-year studs, those belonging to a friend of the respondent, or owners of stud dogs who would gladly take the stud-fee regardless of the specifics of the bitch.

Yeah, I'm not wild about breeding just to make money, yet I'm also not naive enough to believe the fairy-tale that 'if you do it right, you don't make any money at it,' because NOBODY 'loves the breed' sooooo much that they will continue to toss money down a well with no return on it.  Puppies with the 'right' credentials [titled  or verified working parents, breed surveyed, all health clearances completed and cleared, etc.] generally don't leave the breeder for less than $1K, and the average from my observations has been running in the USD$1200-1500 range...and many of those are for pups sold on limited registration, and only one titled parent. Breeders try to justify the whole 'we lose money' riff by adding in the costs of testing and having and caring for the bitch, but the facts remain that if you only bother having a bitch, or any dog, because the animal can generate income for you, then you're NOT really a dog person--you're a person who likes dogs just fine, but likes having everything in their life pay for itself more importantly. 

I have no idea if the bitch was x-rayed before she was bred, but given the fact that it's not recommended to take them while a bitch is in season, nor for several weeks after she's completed the estrus, and it's NEVER a good idea to do them if she's been bred, I'd surmise that the films for the hip & elbow certs will be done once the litter is weaned, and hopefully for everyone involved, it will be all good.

This is a freakin' message board, not the board of directors of the SV-- so she posted some puppy pics here, thinking that some folks might comment on the structure or the movement of one or two of 'em, mostly figuring people would just enjoy seeing baby GSDs frolicking on a nice fall day, because baby puppies usually bring a smile to people's faces. If SS had described this as an 'Oops!' litter instead of being open about the fact that the person who has physical custody of the bitch--and who was the sole owner of her at that time, BTW--made a conscious decision to do the breeding, would y'all be more comfortable with the 'cute puppies' thread that this was intended to be?

What a shame, new members should take the time to read the rules. Before they go slamming long term members. To bad those ads are going to get deleted, sorry, not.

Hexe,

My intent is not to detail the thread or throw stones at anyone but this is a massage board that it's supposed to hopefully educate along with entertain.  

Too just compliment on the beautiful structure of the cute puppies completely ignores the fact that breeding was not carefully planned out.  There are greater risks because the mother did not have her checks done before being bred. To ignore all that so nobody feels bad is a disservice to our dogs.

Someone should feel bad for producing this litter.  Breeding two dogs because they are there and you want to make money is a poor excuse for breeding.  

This is a massage board?! Sweet! My back is killing me!

bzcz, I understand your concerns, and I think I've made my position pretty clear over the years here that I think there are far too many people breeding dogs just because the animals are sexually intact, receptive, and there's money to be recouped.  I've had discussions over the years with friends on that very issue--telling them that I think that for all their talk of 'improving the breed' and 'being good stewards', when you boil it all down they're really breeding to supplement their income regardless of how nice a bitch they have or how well their dog performed for it's [insert title here]... I've been told that my OCD draws too dark and deep a line in the sand when it comes to what should disqualify a dog as a potential breeding animal, because I don't believe dogs that have to be fed super-super-SUPER 'premium' dog foods, or that can only thrive if fed raw, or can't eat a specific protein or carb source should NOT be contributing to the population, for example.

So believe me, I certainly wouldn't have encouraged a breeding like this, but what's done is done, and since the person who actually did the breeding isn't here to discuss the reasons they made the decision to do so, it's a moot point to belabor the matter and accuse SS of being a hypocrite because she's posted pictures of the pups. She made it clear from the start that she came into the picture as a co-owner after the mating had taken place, and this wasn't her litter. If she had been involved in the decision that caused this litter to be whelped, then it would be fair enough to take her to task for what the parents of these pups don't have. Am I supposed to believe that the rest of us don't have friends who have made decisions that we wouldn't have made, or done something that was the polar opposite of what we stood for?  The only matings any of us can control are those where we have physical possession of one of the two dogs involved; those who associate with us shouldn't bear the brunt of scorn if others take issue with a breeding that only we ourselves have managed. 

Edited to strike-through a double-negative that changed the context of the first paragraph.

PS--The puppies ARE adorable. The two shown do appear to be nicely put together. As for the combination of lines, it could go one of three ways--they could be phenoms, they could all be duds, or they could be mediocre...or any combination of the three. I'm pretty sure that they'll be affectionate and loving, regardless.

Your backs probably sore from carrying all of the emperor's clothes for them