When Line Breeding Where Do you Cross The Line: - Page 10

Approximately, ten years ago it seemed that the temperament of the dogs in the Seiger show( via the dismal protection work) and the general GSL was at all time low. Folks came on here and said how SV was feeling the heat and they were going to make the standard of protection work at Seiger show more stringent AND that there had to be a concerted effort by breeders to breed to the stronger males and females to upgrade this situation. At this time there was an expert from England ( very controversial individual who knew  everything similar to someone else from closely related country) who boasted that this would fix the problem over time.( the old, "breed better performing dogs theory" will solve this problems).
Anyway, I said then that it doesn't matter which of the strong GSL dogs you breed to over a given time, you are not going to signicantly improve temperament until you reintroduce all black and sable dogs into the GSL dogs and promote them at highest levels ( VA or Landesgruppen Seigers). ( GENETICS!)   Primarily, because even if you have the few strong GSL dogs in temperament you are breeding to, they are the exact same genetics as the so called weaker GSL dogs that everyone was appalled at during this time. Some folks insisted better breeding practices to stronger dogs of the Black and Red type would alleviate situation. I said okay, We'll revisit the GSL breed in another decade or two and the situation will be the same because genetics in this line is so flawed temperamentwide, that without new signicant new genetics things will be the same or worse.
Well it's about ten years later, and I see the videos of the Seiger show, and I see the participants in the LGA and BSP trials. And nothing has basically changed in past ten years in terms of temperament or working ability BECAUSE of genetics regardless of selection practices in this GS group.
If I'm able to see another ten years, and the powers that be still refuse to signicantly introduce new genetics I submit things will still be the same if not worse. And don't give me the breeders have to introduce the new genetics, because as long as the Judges are not going to put up VA dogs of different genetics, the majority of show breeders and owners are going to keep breeding to same genetics that does win and things won't improve. Regardless of selection or titles.

I think we should put blame on the buyers, breeders breed whatever sells good.

It's a market economy, why change if you have a viable market. Not like the average dog breeder is torn between a career in engineering, medicine, Hollywood or dog farming.

Although isn't Raiser a dentist....oh the SV hate him, never mind.

Buyers can only buy what’s available and what’s available is what breeders are choosing to breed. If instead of mellowing out the dogs the breeders would just tell people to get a different breed or even step their “ownership” up and be able to take a lower drive working line. I know plenty of people who own well balanced working lines who aren’t world beaters but will work and are easily titled. Those dogs are out there and there was never a need to make the dogs any more user friendly for the masses.

Most breeders I know breed for what they believe the GSD should be. Unfortunately, many out there believe that they should be pets first and *possibly* working dogs second. They think seeing their puppy chase a rag around means that it can be a police dog and are more than happy with whatever they’re producing and selling. Many also don’t see the fact that they have the customers they do because of the types of dogs they breed. It’s very similar when it comes to show lines…the breeders that are wanting success in the ring aren’t going to breed puppies which won’t succeed in the ring. That means breeding to VA dogs and not worrying much about working ability. I know plenty of show line breeders that want a dog to be black and red, but also have the ability to work (not like a high drive working line but still be able to title at a club level) and they do that. They know they won’t win the sieger show…but they might get 5-5 on the bitework and that’s more than enough for them.

But human nature makes most people want to win or be the best. Working line breeders are proud of their “pet homes” but they brag about their dogs which are winning podiums/getting titled/working the streets. Show line breeders want to get the highest ratings possible, not just for money, but for pride. Nothing wrong with that at all.

The breed is pulled in whatever direction the breeders take it. For many they depend a lot on judges opinions of their dogs (either with show ratings or with points) and so the judges also have a big impact on what dogs are bred. Therefore the organization which trains and guides the judges has much more of an affect on the breed than the customers do.

By now TIG should have a copy of her lost book which ended up costing way more than the price offered by the seller. The only reason she might not have it is if someone stole it off the porch. Forgotten was to add a signature required to the priority postage.

She really needed to get this book as it could prove something she needed to prove and to add to her already extensive knowledge of dog genetics. Since Willis is gone, this book may disappear from shelves. She has wanted this book for years and years. She should have received it last Tues or Wed if it was not stolen. It needed to be mailed before the Christmas mailings.

So Santa Claus came early for her even if she was mad at him. Santa Claus doesn't always have a beard or wear red clothes and not always be jolly. Not showing jollyness may be a way of hiding jollyness and kindness. So don't just jump to conclusions at first glances. To prove my point -- how many of you who jumped to conclusions and were so quick to criticize sent this book to her?? Don't say you don't know her address - that could have been overcome!

Hope she received the book and is able to enjoy it once again.

@Alamance : ??? - You have trouble letting things go ?

I do not understand your comment.

I might mention that at the time I was looking for and obtaining the book that did not come over night, I think I saw my dog upchuck some small plastic containers that had held butter. Could have been the results from our city coyotes. Not taking a chance I drove her 40 miles to a specialist. They did not have a cat scan but a top vet I trust did. Also they wanted to wait a week. Drove 150 miles to the place whose reader is tops in reading sonoscans and cat scans. She found nothing in the digestive tract but was worried about one adrenal gland and so was this vet as this gland could cause damage as it looked in the scan and I saw the scan. We had to wait to get a surgery done for a very serious and very costly procedure.

The gland was 4 X the size of the other one. It had grown close to an artery and close enough to have attached itself to it. Surgery could have nicked the artery. It was difficult to get out. Lab said it was not doing anything but growing.

I was to keep dog very quiet for 2 weeks which i did 24/7. Taking her back in staff was shocked to see how quickly she healed, but another 2 weeks before going back to work.

That was the simple reason the book was not shipped out immediately. AND why didn't YOU get the book shipped out FASTER than was done??

Will think twice about ever doing a kindness again!

Besides it is none of your X business!!! Just wanted this list to know that the book was sent out. Monitor already knows what is going on so no need to report me.

I hope TIG gets what you are talking about, re the book being sent to her / anywhere, 'cos I surely don't ! I do believe I may be right, though, about your being unable to leave the topic alone; some just need to boast about doing something kind, I guess, if that's your aim, and is what you did. (Why on earth would I report you to the mods ???).

Horrible about your poor dog though. Good thing she'd been in the trash and upchucked the butter containers, else the enlarged adrenal gland might have come to light too late to do any thing with it ! Glad you caught it and that she is mending.

I don't think Alamance knew that your comment on page two was a joke and not an accusation. I'm glad Tig got a new book, though.

Alamance, thank you. I don't think anybody expected you to actually buy a new book, though. We/they were just kidding around.

I just read through the post a little bit and saw that it was pointed out that it was a joke.

Apparently, Alamance thought that Hundmutter did "cross the line".

So,this isn't "off topic" after all.