So you have a real protection dog in your kennel ??? - Page 2

You assume that because I prefer to train in sport and "for points" I've never helped train a LE dog...your assumption is incorrect and I've worked plenty of police dogs. I think most police dogs would be able to title in IPO at a club level. Some could qualify at a regional. Most wouldn't sniff a national field. Simple economics tells you that if the dog was capable of work at that high of a level, it would probably be sold to a private home because there's more money there.

I also don't believe most IPO dogs could do LE work. I think a lot of LE people look at club level videos and stretch that to be every dog in IPO. It's not. The good IPO dogs are trained way better and way different than most of the dogs trialing at clubs. But when LE people use those videos to try to say how weak IPO dogs have gotten...IPO people get defensive and attack. Both groups like to act as if what they do is WAY harder and that their dogs are WAY better than they truly are. We know that most people over exaggerate their dog's ability. Most K9 handlers don't know what they're seeing and have very little to compare to anyways. Dogs are good and bad everywhere, those at the highest levels are very rare though.

I agree with your last paragraph, so when we are talking about training or bitework in non sport venues, comparisons back to sport means and dogs, are misleading, which is what it appears to me you do. Other than that, I agree with you.
And I don't assume that you've never helped train a LE dog, actually that's my point. My titling a dog in the eighties and 2000's and training with folks like T, Dean, Wallace, Andre,etc, allows me to have decent knowledge of sport, but not to be a points trainer at any high level. The same applies to sport trainers that occasionally work a LE dog in comparison to folks that train LE dogs from green to deployment on the streets for many many years. The goals are different, the training is different, and today more times than not( as you acknowledged) the dogs are different.
So in LE world we do see untrained dogs that will defend and protect, but though I am sure in Sport world there are some too, by the very nature of sport goals I would understand you maybe not seeing this as much, or even recognizing it as early as it is not the type of dog that traditionally is high points dog that you always refer back to when comparing other dogs.
I respect you pov, trust me, I just don't think that sport comparisons are be all to all dog training, in fact I know they aren't. And this topic I understood to be about ordinary untrained dogs ( GS).
Again, I am not saying this is prevalent today, but they are certainly out there, especially from some lines.

@BW
What is the value of your sport dog if I can enter your property and take away your dog without any risk from the dog itself?
What makes this dog a "real dog" ?

Mithuna, I am not in the camp of promoting gangsta type dogs as being representative of the breed. I still think that a sound well balanced dog that will " serve and defend",is versatile, and reliable, in public and private is ideal.

Why do you assume my dog won't bite you? All training is different. There is definitely a way to train in sport that still trains the dog to protect the property and the owners. There are also ways to train sport that show the dog it is allowed to bite on the field and no where else. As someone who has not trained in either way, I think you're the last person that should be commenting on the value of those types of dogs. I can also say with 99.9% certainty that I'd have a way easier time getting into your home than you would have getting into mine. Watch that video? The first two dogs are exactly what you have.

My dog bit the first day she was exposed to bitework and she was tied out alone.

Exactly...tied out...and she wasn't alone, you were there. Please don't change stories once you've posted them on here before. She was also agitated and not attacked/pressured in any way near what a true burglar would possibly do. I can also pretty much guarantee that your dog wouldn't have bitten without agitation...so a passive helper doing absolutely nothing. We've been waiting for video for quite some time of your dog...and that single bite session you've probably done.

 

If you'd like an explanation of why dogs are tied out...I'm sure your other forum would be more than happy to explain it to you and why a tie out helps a helper make sure the dog will stay there and possibly bite.

Why do each of you care what the other thinks? Are you good handlers.and trainers? Are you different and your experience's different? There you go!

I wonder what it would have looked like if the dogs had been in the yard by themselves and he walked in on them. This was a different scenario from the dog he showed at the gate.

Second time he came in and the two dogs were let out together, they already knew he wasn't a threat because he was already in the yard rather than walking in on them while they were already out.

I've lost count of how many times I've had a prowler in a bite suit enter my yard uninvited. They're so tiresome.