Is titling / breed surveying a GSD really useless? - Page 1

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susie

by susie on 24 April 2017 - 17:04

A lot of people think that titling and breed surveying doesn´t make sense.

The CONs:

  1. Too expensive
  2. Takes too long
  3. Physically not able to handle
  4. No club
  5. No time
  6. Doesn´t proof real working ability
  7. I know my dogs ...

My answers:

  1. Yes, depending on the location it is expensive, but honestly, a GSD over here costs € 600 - € 1000, whereas you get $ 1500 - $ 2500 for a puppy - and we HAVE to title in BH, AD, IPO, show, breed survey, not to forget HD/ED
  2. We normally start with puppies, they are ready for breeding at around 2 years. Even in case you need longer, what speaks against a litter out of a 3 years old female?
  3. There are people that titled dogs in a wheelchair - in case you are not able to run physically the judge won´t mind. Everything else okay and your dog won´t fail.
  4. Yes, that´s a real problem - BUT the more people start to get involved, the more clubs will arise - and at least a breeder breeding 20+ puppies every single year should be able to find some people interested in training / titling.
  5. That´s something I don´t accept. In case you have enough time to breed on a regular basis you should have enough time for training. Even in case you are "only" able to train at the weekend in a club that´s enough. For tracking and obedience you don´t need a club. In case you don´t even have enough time for some training you shouldn´t own dogs at all.
  6. The GSD is a working dog. The "working" titles are required because they are the MINIMUM a GSD should be able to do. The more - the better, but not LESS.
  7. "I know my dogs".... heard this too often... There ARE people who know their dogs, but they are few and far inbetween, and almost all of them either do something else with their dogs or at least did in the past, and ( should ) know what to look for... I am very partial about this, cause after a while people tend to forget - the own dogs are always "the best" dogs - no more comparison, no more truth...

My PROs:

  1. You will learn how to handle a dog
  2. You will learn about your own training skills
  3. You and your dog will have fun
  4. You will learn about the advantages and disadvantages of your own dog
  5. You will know if your dog is breedworthy or not
  6. ...and more

Forget about "midnight trials", "switched dogs" and so on - I am talking about REAL tests with REAL dogs.
All those untitled dogs are advertised as "son/daughter" - or even better - "grandson/granddaughter" of the famous titled champions xyz, but after 2 generations the breeders need "fresh working blood" from titled European breeding stock. Weird, isn´t it?

No human is famous only because the parents/grandparents did something special - all of us have to proof our skills in job and daily life, no son/daughter of a surgeon will become a surgeon automatically ( without education and proof ) only because one or two ancestors have been surgeons. Why do a lot of people think ( promote ) that dogs are different???

They are NOT. EVERY working dog has to be selected for its working ability, even the best working line litter may end as "pet quality".

You don´t believe in IPO? Do something else, but be ready to COMPARE, not to believe.
And in case you decide to do something else, at least show your dog once ( teeth, testicles, conformation ) in the young/youth dog class, that´s one day of your life....

and don´t forget about health testing.

End of rant, sorry, have been reading the classifieds, shouldn´t do that.
 


by Gustav on 24 April 2017 - 19:04

I have never heard a real dog person say that titling doesn't make sense, but you make a well reasoned case for titling being an asset to the breed.

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 24 April 2017 - 20:04

Do we have to go through this again?

I dare you to come live where I live for three months and tell me how many clubs have gotten back to you, how many times you've been to training, and how much time you got on the field and how much money you've paid doing so.

Than we'll talk again.

by Bavarian Wagon on 24 April 2017 - 20:04

It shouldn't matter where you live, if you want to do it, you can get people to do it. Some of you people claim to have all the experience in the world and yet can't be bothered to train someone to do the work? Everyone seems to NEED an experience helper, yet none of the experienced people can teach someone to be one. I live in a city of 600,000...the metropolitan area (within an hour of downtown) is more like 2 million, and there wasn't a club within an hour of us. A few 1.5-3 hours away, but nothing in the actual city or even on the outskirts. We made it happen.

Great post susie...just do something with your dog. You can claim you care about the breed all you want on the internet, but go out and prove it.

Oh and I've been called out for WANTING someone else to take a look at my dog and confirm my opinion that it's breed worthy. The masters of this breed (those that get an IPO title or two at a club level) can all decide this on their own in the United States....they've proven it too...it's why we've produced so many high level dogs.

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 24 April 2017 - 21:04

We made it happen too. I built my own club, though it's not an IPO club. My purpose is an entirely different one and I'm not wasting my time for that anymore. It's actually not even the helper that is the issue. It's tracking that's the problem with most people.

I love IPO. I really do. But after I've spent over 10 000 dollars in gas money without ever even getting to the blind search, I just can't justify it anymore. You can breed good dogs without being kennel blind, without titling, and still know what you are doing.

by vk4gsd on 24 April 2017 - 21:04

Mathematically it goes like this for breeders;

The less time they spend titling the more time they spend internetting.

Time tapping on a keyboard is low energy consumption really....cheaper than guzzoline.

by Bavarian Wagon on 24 April 2017 - 21:04

I've had no issues tracking...live in a much larger metropolitan area than most. I find green grass, dirt, alfalfa all over the place. No issues running a track or multiple tracks. Excuses are just that.

You can breed good dogs without doing much. Good isn't hard. "Decent" breeders (those that claim to know something and are a little more involved in the breed than some guy throwing two dogs together in the back yard)...over blow how bad the general BYBs are in this country. Most GSDs bred here aren't nervy and have no issues being pets. Could they work? Probably not. But those decent breeders rarely prove that their dogs can work beyond a fun video with their friendly neighborhood helper either. Bring me a GSD...within a few sessions I can have it on a sleeve or a suit or barking/snarling at me to make a sweet 30 second video that somehow proves the dog's working ability.

susie

by susie on 24 April 2017 - 21:04

Gas money ...
How much do you pay for a gallon?
1 liter in Germany right now costs € 1.34 ( pretty low nowadays, last year we paid more than 1.60 )
1 gallon = 3.785 liter
1 Euro = more or less 1.07 Dollar right now
That said I pay Dollar 5.42 for a gallon right now ( and again- the price is low ).

by joanro on 24 April 2017 - 22:04

And then you've got the keyboard warriors who can blab and run gsd owners down, but have zero proof that they even own a dog....just lots of white noise. 

 

Enjoying one of my dogs in my back yard....that I raised from a pup and I trained in my back yard and then put bh, schh1 and schh2 on

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7f65f213zm1wr44/Ajsa%2011%20yr%20birthday.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s6q13y8jrp7swss/ajsa%2011.mp4?dl=0

 

Testing and enjoying one of my dogs in my front yard..from two titled parents who were raised trained in my back yard,  titled by me.

Skip to around 1:12 as I can't edit videos...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w1lqbdbnblngp82/nelson%20w%20bitesuit.mts?dl=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7z6e4isrqc69v2c/nelson%20bites%20leg%20first%20time%20bitesuit.mts?dl=0

 


Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 25 April 2017 - 03:04

My dogs are getting titled, but I am not stressing out over it anymore. My dogs are also legitimate working dogs.

Bruna is getting her 1 in September. She has a litter on the ground after she had her BH and anyone knowing the males owner, knows she doesn't approve every female. She turned titled females away that didn't live up to her standard. Puppies are all spoken for and out of 8 pups, 6 go into IPO/Working homes and 2 are going into an active pet home.

Athos, he's got the BH and a few other fun dog titles, he is a legitimate Mobility Service Dog, and I mean a real SD, not just saying that. He's spent time with me a the hospital on multiple occasions and you want to know the true heart of a dog, work him full time as a SD and he'll show you. True SD training, is challenging in different aspects. And not every IPO dog could do what he's done and is doing. That showed me more about my dog than any IPO training ever can! He'll get his PDC and PSA1 after my surgery and after I can actually walk again. Because right now, I can maybe hold up 5 minutes walking. So yeah, I'm much more relaxed about it.

All of our dogs are working. They are being trained on a daily basis. My new male, he's got IPO2 and he's a Bomb Dog. Hes proven himself. We might put a 3 on him. So I'm not just breeding untitled dogs that sit in their backyard all day, if that's the impression ya'll have.

Feel free to come by anytime and actually meet them.






 


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