Litters affecting health - Page 2

 There is nothing wrong at all with back to back litters with a healthy bitch. Doing for 6 years straight might be a bit much, but other than that nothing wrong at all.

If you have a bitch that produces well, then why not ? If you are wanting to start your own line then it makes perfect sense to me. All this your gonna make money crap is silly. If you have a healthy bitch, and a healthy male, you are going to make some money. 

Believe it or not, you need money to pay for vet bills, for kennels for the big ass property you spent money on to start your own breeding program. THere are always things that can go wrong in life, if you are just worried that someone may make some money off of puppies, then you should mind your own business. 

I do not like it when breeders say that they do not make money. You should be making money. However, wether or not it stays with you is another matter entirely.

 I agree with noddi--back to back litters is not healthy for the dam.  Pregnancy, giving birth, and nursing puppies takes its toll on the body.  One litter a year for the dam is plenty.  

 Quote:  I agree with noddi--back to back litters is not healthy for the dam. Pregnancy, giving birth, and nursing puppies takes its toll on the body. One litter a year for the dam is plenty

Do you have any research to back that up ? I am asking because there is evidence that back to back litters is healthier for the bitch. I will try and find that, but it is true in my experience as well.

Jeff.I never said that anyone should never do back to back litters.i actually did a back to back litter with my foundation bitch in 1989.Cassie(at 2 and half)had her 1st litter jan89,in which she had 11 pups.then my hubby and i attended our main breed show of the year(the national)where a pup from this litter was placed 1st in a very large MPD class(approx 30 odd pups)ended up 3rd.My hubby had admired a stud dog earlier in the year which he wished me to use in 1990(after 12mths from 1st litter)however this male had been offerred for sale in the dog papers the day before at home or abroad.has this male was owned in partnership,which was breaking up we decided  we would confer with our vet as to whether it would be okay for our bitches health.the vet advised that as she was young,fit and healthy to go ahead,but not to breed her again for 12 months if a smaller litter was produced but if she had an average or large litter aHere gain THEN NOT TO MATE HER UNTIL 18 MTHS.HAD PASSED.We went ahead and mated her,once again she produced 11 pups.She had no problems whelping either litter but this 2nd litter was not as even as the 1st,as we had some larger more substantial pups and others that were small and runty.Yes i know that this could be down to genetics.I personally DO NOT THINK that it is fair to keep expecting my bitches to produce pups every 6 months,so i can make money.I only breed when i wish to have a new pup to show.Ihavent had a litter in over 8 years and have now lost my line.Yu mentioned that one needs money for vet bills,kennels etc.this outlay should be thought about before one buys any companion animal.MY DOGS ARE MY BABIES FIRST AND FOREMOST,SHOWDOGS 2ND.....NOT MONEY MAKING MACHINES.If one has 1 litter per year yu can still make a little profit.I doubt very much if there are any show line breeders here in the uk who continually breed their bitches back to back every season.once every so often is acceptable in my books but every season ,NO WAY.here in the UK a good quality gsd pup is around 700 pounds...say one has 8 in litter and breeder retains 2 ,that leaves 6x700=4200 british pounds.After expenses i would think  one would have at least 2 grand profit.Carole S.

Jeff--as a mother and a Biology teacher, I can tell you that being pregnant, giving birth, and nursing are hard on the mother's body.   A responsible breeder should be concerned about the health of the dam and the puppies.  Over breeding can diminish the health of the dam which in turn affects the health of the puppies.  Here is an article which mentions that the over breeding of a female dog can increase the chances of birth defects:  http://www.how-to-breed-dogs.com/frequency_of_dog_breeding.php .   Puppy mills over breed their dogs.  Responsible breeders give the dam a chance to recover before they breed her again.  A simple strategy for the responsible breeder would be to let a dam have only one litter a year.  After all, it should be about improving the breed, shouldn't it?  Improving the breed would mean looking out for the health of the dam and her puppies.  Right?

"Here is an article which mentions that the over breeding of a female dog can increase the chances of birth defects"

ummmm, yes, that article does say that "mummy pups" are "often caused by inadequate care and over-breeding."  With absolutely no reference to studies or any scientific backup whatsoever.  I couldn't find anything on that page that gave anything more than the writer's own opinions.  So no scientific backup and no statement of their own experience and expertise to justify those statements.

HI EVERYONE
JUST WANTED TO SAY , I HAVE BRED MY BITCH WHO IS A EVERY 4 MONTHER ,, FIRST LITTER DEC 2009 ,,11 PUPS ,,SECOND LITTER NOV 2010 ,,12 PUPS -- 1 STILL BORN -- 1 FADER = 10 HEALTHY PUPS  ,,,SECOND LITTER NOT AS BIG AND CHUNCKY  AS FIRST BUT STILL VERY HEALTHY AS IS MUM
HAVING SAID THIS COMMON SENCE TELLS ME ENOUGH IS ENOUGHT NOW FOR MUM ,, SHE NEEDS A GOOD 2 YR BREAK BEFORE EVEN CONCIDERING  ANOTHER LITTER DISPITE BEING A FANTASTIC PRODUCER
ALL MY DOGS ARE HEALTH CHECKED ,, ALWAYS VET CHECKED BEFORE MATING , K.C REG [ FOR WHAT ITS WORTH ] AND FED ON ARDEN GRANGE ALL THE TIME ,,,NOT JUST WHEN IN WHELP ,,,
THEY LIVE INDOORS AS A BIG PART OF THE FAMILY  AND YES THE MONEY HELPS ,,BUT IF PUPS ARE REARED CORRECTLY THEN YOUR SORLEY WRONG IF ANYONE THINKS ITS A GOOD MONEY SPINNER ,,UNFORTUNATLY THERE ARE  TO MANY BREEDERS IN IT ONLY FOR THE MONEY  ,BUT 
THATS DOWN TO THE KENNEL CLUB FOR ALLOWING LITTERS TO BE REGISTERED CONTINUOSLY FROM THE SAME DAME ,,, IF THIS WAS CHANGED THEN  PERHAPS MORE BITCHES WOULD GET THE REST THEY NEED 
FORTUNATLY IN MY EXPERIENCE ,,,PUPPY BUYERS ARE MORE AWARE OF THE HEALTH CHECKS NEEDED NOW  ON BOTH SIRE AND DAMES   

 Tess--I put in an inquiry with a vet I know at a large animal hospital.  Waiting to hear back from him.  

That's great. Will be interesting to hear the results.  Just make sure s/he is not an anti-breeding vet.  There are a lot of those, and I can't say I blame them - they see the absolute worst dog breeders in existence.

And what is "over breeding" in this context? For some over breeding would  include breeding 2 heats in a row.  So define your terms.

It's my thought that you can't make blanket statements like multiple litters = bad health, because although for some bitches this is true, for others it isn't.  I'm sure it's very common for caring, reputable breeders to make breeding decisions on a dog by dog basis - this dog I bred twice, this one I wouldn't do that.  Just like it's common for uncaring people to truly breed unhealthy dogs until they're run into the ground, and because of their poor health 2 litters in a row is definitely too much for them.

 I did find a German Shepherd breeders code: http://www.gsdca.org/Noframes/breeders_code.html.  It states that the female should not have three consecutive litters unless recommended by a vet.  This looks like a good code for responsible breeders.   It does not reference any research.  It is based on ethics and responsible breeding practices.  

Biologically speaking, a female dog can have two litters a year.  Biologically speaking, a female human can give birth and within 3 months after giving birth can conceive again.  Just because it is biologically possible doesn't mean it is in the best interest for the health of the female.

Responsible actions separate the reputable breeder from a puppy mill.