by johan77 on 11 August 2020 - 17:08
Speaking from a purely functional view these big heavy dogs or dogs who have drifted away from a natural anatomy of a workingdog is due to people think they look good and nothing else I suppose. What does it matter anyway, some dogs are more muscular some more slender and some in between. These three dogs I think are good examples of "natural" types speaking of their anatomy, natural backs and nice proportions which are not always so easy to find even among workinglines today
by ValK on 12 August 2020 - 12:08
Utz was born 1947, 2 years after end of WWII. there wasn't yet DDR in russian occupied east zone and not yet 3 allied zones
was united into BRD. dogs, who survived the war time, was the same stock on either side. way later preferred breeding selection
goals did went separate directions. in West GSDs development was gone toward the sport and "beauty", when East breeding took
kind of militarized approach.
previous view of GSD as mainly herding breed did changed in both countries and accordingly selection start to be based on the
specimens, who better fit for set purpose, be it "beauty" contest, entertained activity on harmless sport field or use of dog as worthy
opponent against adversary with bigger mass and more physical strength.
nevertheless, even in such separation of breeding, there were some influences of each side on other. the sole discipline schutzhund
in 80's in DDR did become like earlier in the West more sporty and less as tool to test the dogs and accordingly started to appear the
type of dogs, who better suiting for that purpose. at same time in West, albeit minuscule minority but appear the breeders, who had
great interest to eastern type of GSDs.
my experience limited to militarized dogs and i can't answer wide range of question in regards of sport or show. for that you need
communicate with people, who were involved back then in DDR.
thus you should decide for yourself which direction you want to take - the beauty of Rasputin and similar "DDR" dogs, sport type
like Zorro, Lord or militaristic type like Held. with any of these you'll have it's own pros and cons.
by stormins on 12 August 2020 - 12:08
I have learned much from you and hope to learn more....
I am not big into sport but I do like s nice looking dogs that will work.... :-)
But maybe that is not possible to mix beauty with work?
I have several of my Dogs that have Held Vom Ritterburg but thats in the 7th generation now..... (I assume you wernt talking about Held Vom Kranich hof)
Can you explain his hip rating? DDR 103314
Hip: SV: HD a-Ausland (a6)
by Rik on 12 August 2020 - 13:08
stormwins, I'm not going to do the search and post, but it is absolutely possible to have very structural correct and very "eye" pleasing dogs that are serious.
I doubt anyone who posts here is more "serious" at providing working, LE/Military GSD than duke. he has the pick of European dogs to establish his program. yet just judging from what he posts, they are very ascetically pleasing.
look at the Staatsmacht dogs, many are V rated and very handsome, this besides the breeder stating many times he could care less about looks, only function and ability.
this is a pretty good argument that form follows function.
by Hired Dog on 12 August 2020 - 13:08
Indeed, I like a dog that looks good, TO ME, and I will be the first to tell you, I dont care about looks, only ability, but, if form still followed function, we would not be having this conversation my friend. Stay safe.
by Rik on 12 August 2020 - 14:08
I did assume that in "beauty" she was referring to typical SV grades and I attempted to provide a couple examples of what I consider breeders of some "attractive" GSD that seem suitable to very serious work. that is of course IMO only.
anyway, this is a rabbit hole with no end and I do consider the end result of being able to perform the job the ultimate goal.
and while I absolutely do not agree with what the SV is promoting as a GSD, I absolutely also do not agree that the GSD should not meet a standard other than bite the criminal.
that is what the mal is for.
by Rik on 12 August 2020 - 15:08
and this just to add. this is a dog duke uses in his program.
if any disagrees that a functional GSD cannot be astecitcally pleasing, then please argue it with someone producing dogs to the L#E/MIL market. I'm just a former show person.
by stormins on 12 August 2020 - 21:08
Now THAT is power waiting to be unleashed!!
Granted we are getting off into Non DDR dogs for examples ...
Speaking of which what kind of registry is the "S" an "SE" http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2819657-xido-neresnicka-dolina
by Rhumphrey7 on 12 August 2020 - 23:08
A6 hips mean the dogs xrays were done outside Germany and as such SV will not rate them with A1 -A3
by Nans gsd on 13 August 2020 - 14:08
FORM plus FUNCTION = BEAUTY.