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by missbeeb on 08 February 2011 - 16:02
Excellent post David...
by Abby Normal on 09 February 2011 - 13:02
Yep...excellent post Videx
by Doppelganger on 09 February 2011 - 15:02
I would just like to point out that the KC Good Citizen does qualify dogs to enter the KC Good Citizen class at Crufts and many other shows. Although its obviously not on the same level as Sch or KK but to the owners it means a lot and it does mean people are actually doing some kind of working activity with their dogs, which can only be good publicity for the breed at a time when it is badly needed. Some of us are not in a position to do more strenuous working activities with our dogs so this gives us an opportunity to train our dogs to our ability and receive some recognition for that.
by Videx on 09 February 2011 - 16:02
I am definitely NOT trying to demean the KC Good Citizens Scheme. It is fine for those that wish to do it for their pleasure and to achieve a KC qualification. I am of the very firm opinion that it has NO place forming any part of the requirements for our GSD Breed Survey Scheme. When our GSD breed, and by that I definitely mean those GSD Clubs/Organisations directly involved in the GSDL/WUSV Regional Events, consider it is time to introduce some initial working Tests/qualifications into the GSD Breed Survey, I trust it will be some years away, possible a minimum of 5 years away, I sincerely believe they must base their considerations on elements of the SV BH test and maybe elements of the SV Korung (the Korung requires a DNA parentage test) and maybe the SV AD test. I must stress my firm opinion of waiting until we have over 2000 GSD per year going through our GSD Breed Survey, although once it reaches over 1000 per year consideration of introducing some initial working test could commence.
Please remember our GSDL/WUSV Events are very clearly TWO systems running together. ONE is the full SV/WUSV System which culminates with the Working Classes which require the FULL SV/WUSV qualifications eg. AD, BH, SchH1,2,3. and/or IPO1,2,3. and the SV/WUSV Korung (SV/WUSV breed survey = allowed to breed). TWO is the GSDL/WUSV British System which culminates in the Adult Classes which require the GSD Breed Survey. It is very important to remember that GSD following either system will compete together in ALL OTHER CLASSES.
Of course always remembering Long Coats are separately scheduled classes.
I stress the importance, in my very firm opinion, that the development of the conditions for our GSD Breed Survey must only consider elements within the SV/WUSV System, for as much as I strongly advocate the absolute RETENTION of the ADULT Classes and therefore the GSDL/WUSV System, (because not everyone wants to train their dogs and qualify under the SV system, particularly the protection phase), we must maintain the differences to be only by comparison with the FULL SV/WUSV System. To introduce the KC Good Citizens test immediately thwarts that very important principle. Something that should never be allowed to occur.
THIS IS OUR GSDL/WUSV SYSTEM - NOT - A BRITISH "HOTCH POTCH" SYSTEM
The Kennel Club have their system - The GSD breed also has the GSDL/WUSV System.
Anyone can participate in ALL THREE Systems as long as they meet the entry criteria.
The words ENTRY CRITERIA should never be overlooked, they should always be remembered.
Please remember our GSDL/WUSV Events are very clearly TWO systems running together. ONE is the full SV/WUSV System which culminates with the Working Classes which require the FULL SV/WUSV qualifications eg. AD, BH, SchH1,2,3. and/or IPO1,2,3. and the SV/WUSV Korung (SV/WUSV breed survey = allowed to breed). TWO is the GSDL/WUSV British System which culminates in the Adult Classes which require the GSD Breed Survey. It is very important to remember that GSD following either system will compete together in ALL OTHER CLASSES.
Of course always remembering Long Coats are separately scheduled classes.
I stress the importance, in my very firm opinion, that the development of the conditions for our GSD Breed Survey must only consider elements within the SV/WUSV System, for as much as I strongly advocate the absolute RETENTION of the ADULT Classes and therefore the GSDL/WUSV System, (because not everyone wants to train their dogs and qualify under the SV system, particularly the protection phase), we must maintain the differences to be only by comparison with the FULL SV/WUSV System. To introduce the KC Good Citizens test immediately thwarts that very important principle. Something that should never be allowed to occur.
THIS IS OUR GSDL/WUSV SYSTEM - NOT - A BRITISH "HOTCH POTCH" SYSTEM
The Kennel Club have their system - The GSD breed also has the GSDL/WUSV System.
Anyone can participate in ALL THREE Systems as long as they meet the entry criteria.
The words ENTRY CRITERIA should never be overlooked, they should always be remembered.
by jaymesie51 on 09 February 2011 - 17:02
i have to agree with david here i dont think the KC good citizens award has any place in our breed surveys, and some of the people i have spoken to have said that they wont bother with the survey that of course means the adults cannot be shown at our regionals, but of course can be shown at KC shows , now that defeats the purpose, strange that a KC award is needed for non KC events, just something to think about.
jim h
jim h
by NikkiF on 09 February 2011 - 18:02
I have refrained from entering into this discussion until now and all I have to say is - that over the next week I have to attend 3 meetings which will hopefully cover all the issues raised in this discussion. As all members of each meeting have to come from all areas of the UK it is impossible to meet on a weekly basis when these things can be discussed. I totally agree with most of what David writes his only problem is that he wants it done yesterday! For your information it has always been agreed with the SV that they will register any UK dogs on their DNA register and as when it all first started you have to start with a dog and thereafter all dogs descended from that dog can be DNA proven. Any requests for DNA testing can be answered by myself or Syd Farley via the League website or to us direct.
Nikki Farley
Chairman - GSDL
Nikki Farley
Chairman - GSDL
by Videx on 09 February 2011 - 22:02
"it has always been agreed with the SV that they will register any UK dogs on their DNA register"
I take it that by this you mean "The SV DNA Parentage Register"
If that is correct, it begs the question WHY hasn't it been included into the requirements of our GSD Breed Survey? I am delighted with this SV facility, it is the very best option and there is certainly no need for our own DNA Parentage Scheme/Test/Register. I certainly hope there is no further undue delay in ensuring the "SV DNA Parentage Test" is included in our GSD Breed Survey, and the test is prominently advertised on the GSD League Website and our next League Magazine (which incidentally is currently FREE to all GSD League members) - ALL GSD owners can join.
JOIN HERE:
http://www.gsdleague.co.uk/MEMBERSHIP%20OF%20THE%20GSD%20LEAGUE%20OF%20GB.html
(yesterday wasn't soon enough!)
As always I also offer the GSD League my willingness to promote their initiatives on my own website and my British and International Emailing.
I take it that by this you mean "The SV DNA Parentage Register"
If that is correct, it begs the question WHY hasn't it been included into the requirements of our GSD Breed Survey? I am delighted with this SV facility, it is the very best option and there is certainly no need for our own DNA Parentage Scheme/Test/Register. I certainly hope there is no further undue delay in ensuring the "SV DNA Parentage Test" is included in our GSD Breed Survey, and the test is prominently advertised on the GSD League Website and our next League Magazine (which incidentally is currently FREE to all GSD League members) - ALL GSD owners can join.
JOIN HERE:
http://www.gsdleague.co.uk/MEMBERSHIP%20OF%20THE%20GSD%20LEAGUE%20OF%20GB.html
(yesterday wasn't soon enough!)
As always I also offer the GSD League my willingness to promote their initiatives on my own website and my British and International Emailing.
by Sue B on 10 February 2011 - 05:02
Thanks Nikki for confirming what I had said in my very first post on page 1 of this thread i.e - "When a scheme linked to worldwide GSD DNA database is already available, as much as I agree with David that I would love to see a scheme developed here in the UK, when linking up with the SV scheme is readily available via the League, I do not necessarily see it as a major priority at this time. There are so many more things that we need first that we do not currently have access to."
Obviously some didn't bother reading it (or perhaps the paragraph was too cryptic for their understanding?)
then some wonder, after I had already given them the info they required, why I couldn't be bothered wasting any more of my time coming back to reply to their irrelevant, nonsensical questions!! 
No wonder some of those prepared to roll up their sleeves and get stuck in to all the 'Doing', so regulary get fed up and walk away. For not only are they expected to do all the work but they then have to take all the flack and abuse from ignorant, annonymous, good for nothing morons in the process.
Good post page3 David
Sue
Obviously some didn't bother reading it (or perhaps the paragraph was too cryptic for their understanding?)
then some wonder, after I had already given them the info they required, why I couldn't be bothered wasting any more of my time coming back to reply to their irrelevant, nonsensical questions!! No wonder some of those prepared to roll up their sleeves and get stuck in to all the 'Doing', so regulary get fed up and walk away. For not only are they expected to do all the work but they then have to take all the flack and abuse from ignorant, annonymous, good for nothing morons in the process.Good post page3 David
Sue
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