EPILEPSY IN THE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG - Page 6

Hi guys

It is so sad that there are still people out there who are chasing the $, £, euro or whatever currency they use rather than giving their pups the best start in life they can by ensuring their genetic health as far as humanly possible.

If anyone knows of current fitters or carriers would they please pm me so that I can see if these dogs are in my guys pedigree. As I have already said, to the Breed Council, breeders and my knowledge he has none of the usual suspects from Quadrille's progeny or ancestors.

I will again re-iterate, this is NOT a witch hunt it is just to give me a clearer understanding of what is going on with my guy..

As the owner of an epileptic dog I will die on this hill forever: There is NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER for knowlingly breeding a dog that is epileptic, has produced epilepsy, is closely related to a dog that has epilepsy or has closely produced epilepsy; etc.

If your breeding pool is so limited you have to perpetuate such a horrible disease, your breed needs to die out and die out forever.

AMEN, Jill! It's a horrible thing to see - the stable where I used to ride had a dog with such severe epilepsy, he eventually died from it. He once took a horse-sized dose of tranquilizer into a vein before his owner was able to get him to stop seizing! :'(

Marilyn, have PM'd you.

I know this is going to sound crazy, but in breeding, showing, GSD in North America for 3 decades, I never heard or saw a dog
with epilepsy or DM. and I had them from almost all B.L. available. including partners/co/breeders named many years top GSDCA breeder.

and also a top breeder in Canada.

I did see a lot of bad shitz, but I never heard of these issues before joining this site.

I am now aware of it, especially DM. I'm planning something soon, so these issues are on my list to make as sure as possible I don't run into.

Rik

I know this is going to sound crazy, but in breeding, showing, GSD in North America for 3 decades, I never heard or saw a dog
with epilepsy or DM. and I had them from almost all B.L. available. including partners/co/breeders named many years top GSDCA breeder.

and also a top breeder in Canada.

I did see a lot of bad shitz, but I never heard of these issues before joining this site.

I am now aware of it, especially DM. I'm planning something soon, so these issues are on my list to make as sure as possible I don't run into.

Rik

Rik, 

I have yet to see a well bred working line with Epilepsie myself. To be honest, I wouldn't know if I had a dog in any of my pedigrees that actually produced it because I've never heard of it, nor seen it.

That being said, in the 10 years I've lived in the United States, I've had ONE Foster German Shepherd that actually died from Epilepsie despite treatment. He was a very poorly bred run of the mill BYB GSD. He was a mess. So I've seen what Epilepsie can do.

So far, I've seen one dog with Cauda Equina that I personally know and unfortunately Dolf vom Haus Duelfer who is now 10 years old has developed Spondy.

Other than that, I don't know a single dog personally, out of well bred bloodlines, that has ever had Epilepsie or DM.

Genetic Epilepsy doesn't just spontaneously appear - it has to be genetically passed on through the bloodline(s).   My older dog, linebred 3-2 on Puci Jipo-me, has idiopathic epilepsy. Since he was diagnosed just over a year ago, he has had more than 35 Grand Mal seizures, even while on Phenobarbital & Leviteracetum. So it's not just BYB GSD's that have it. Just because it's not widely acknowledged, does not mean it doesn't exist. Without full disclosure from ALL breeders & owners of epileptic dogs (and this goes for any condition), carriers can never be eliminated from the gene pool. The problem with recessive traits such as genetic epilepsy (and other diseases/conditions) is that it's hard to identify the source to eliminate the genetics. But if more people admitted their dogs have it then it would be easier to identify the genetic carriers and not keep breeding it into the GSD inadvertently.

I fullheartedly agree with you. Only with Transparency will we be able to get rid of issues.

Some of the top dogs in the UK GSD history way back when carried Epilepsy. Some epileptic dogs were even shown. As Koots said, it is a fallacy that it is poorly bred dogs that suffer with it.

Epilepsy appears to be a recessive gene or several genes so it is hard to pin down as it may skip many generations. Also epilepsy may be caused by other problems which need to be ruled out before a presumptive diagnosis of Idiopathic Epilepsy is reached. Idiopathic Epilepsy is only diagnosed when no other cause can be found and this is when the pedigrees are referred to. It could be from a dog or bitch way back in the pedigree and the progeny have been bred from in ignorance due to the fact that the dog way back was epileptic was never made public knowledge. If it had been made public knowledge, a lot of the breeders who go through the pedigrees of the dog and bitch to be used would have been aware there could be an issue.

 

Epilepsy appears to be a recessive gene or several genes so it is hard to pin down as it may skip many generations.... It could be from a dog or bitch way back in the pedigree and the progeny have been bred from in ignorance due to the fact that the dog way back was epileptic was never made public knowledge. If it had been made public knowledge, a lot of the breeders who go through the pedigrees of the dog and bitch to be used would have been aware there could be an issue.

This is why the [genetic] epileptic dogs need to be identified and admitted to by breeders and owners.  Covering/denying or 'burying' epilepsy will only contribute to the propagation of it.   

My epileptic dog is line-bred fairly closely.  With line-breeding, you can increase the odds of the genes which make a dog good/great becoming expressed, but at the same time you can also increase the risk of bad genes becoming expressed.   I knew that before buying my dog, but could not find any mention of negative genetic expression that could be tied to the female upon which my dog is line-bred.   One takes a chance when breeding,  especially line-breeding, but if genetic faults are not admitted or exposed, then it's like breeding 'blind'.   That's why a global genetic database would be useful in planning a mating to reduce risk and increase favourable outcomes.  But this requires cooperation from all involved - something to strive for, for the sake of the GSD.