Pedigree Database

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 17 September 2020 - 09:09

Some of the top dogs in the UK GSD history way back when carried Epilepsy. Some epileptic dogs were even shown. As Koots said, it is a fallacy that it is poorly bred dogs that suffer with it.

It would be actually nice if people read what I said (if it's geared towards me). I never said that it's not in well bred dogs. I said that I (PERSONALLY) don't know a single well bred dog that has suffered from Epillepsie and that I wouldn't know if there was a carrier within my pedigree because I've never heard of Epillepsie within our dogs to begin with and that the only dog I've personally known that actually died from Epillepsie was a poorly bred BYB. 

That is my only experience with Epillepsie. I've been in working lines my entire life and I've never seen or heard of a dog with Epillepsie. However, that doesn't mean that it does not exist. Only that I, for as long as I've been in dogs, have yet to actually know one personally. It's also one of the reasons why I tend to go with what I personally know and have been able to follow progeny. This way I can see and follow not only temperament and performance but also health.

It's also why I prefer public databases. What good is a database like SV Docx if it's not public so you can actually verify results. If it was all public, like OFA, where anyone can verify results, we wouldn't have the level of fraud and scheeming that we have in the breed.

by ValK on 17 September 2020 - 11:09

transparency and disclosure in breeding would be good think but for that must be implemented organizational structure similar to one, used in former DDR.
unfortunately in present commercial environment that impossible and dishonest and unscrupulous breeders using it for own advantage.


by Sunsilver on 17 September 2020 - 12:09

There is a wealth of information available on this board in old threads. Most of it relates to the U.K. because there was a very big problem with close inbreeding in the Alsatian type dogs, with a dog named Hendrawen's Quadrille of Eveley being the main culprit for passing on the disease. It boggles my mind that breeders didn't make more of an effort to solve the problem. I first became aware of it when the owner of one of the dogs posted that he'd had to put the dog to sleep due to severe epileptic fits. He had not only shown the dog - he had also BRED it! Rarely have I ever seen so much backmassing in a pedigree. Lornaville Ambassador, a known fitter, and a descendant of Quadrille, appears in his pedigree 25 times!


Some excellent information in these threads: 





by Koots on 17 September 2020 - 15:09

Gloves are OFF, Joan....

I know you're reading this because I just got a nasty email from you, because I dared to mention that my dog is line-bred on Puci. Coincidentally, I also got a PM from Valk just prior to Joan's email, basically accusing me of smearing the name of Puci and the breeder. It seems that some people have a reading comprehension problem, and do not realize that I mentioned my dog was line-bred on Puci to illustrate that working-line dogs can and DO have epilepsy in the lines.

Bring it on, you haters of the truth....

And just FYI, the FACTS have NO OPINION, they are FACTS.   

Fact - my dog is line-bred on Puci.   

Fact - my dog has epilepsy.

by ValK on 17 September 2020 - 16:09

Koots, i don't see a reason for your burst against me and can't see how i did accuse you.
i shared with you my thought privately because of my respect to you and my unwillingness to place you into uncomfy situation.
actually nothing i know about your correspondence with Joan or that dog in question did come from her breeding.
since my english far from perfection, i would love to hear what exactly in my PMs was so harsh to drive your ire and request to not contact you :)

i agree with your statement about disclosure but to produce pups it takes two dogs. those two in turn had bunch of other pairs through many generations.
since knowledge on how genetic works still a mystery and those predecessors been long gone, now it's impossible to identify which of them introduced epilepsy in this particular case or if that arrives through maternal or paternal side.
you mentioned Puci but none of other dogs, who can be carrier of bad gene as well. it's somewhat stained her and a breeder behind.

sorry, i don't got meaning behind "Joan's dirty work". no one know who she is but Puci was bred by Jiri Pokorny, name well known in GSD world.
you mentioned Puci Jipo-me thus it can be perceived as hint of his unscrupulous practice.


by Koots on 17 September 2020 - 16:09

Valk - the "hint of his unscrupulous practice" was your way of suggesting that I am accusing someone of bad breeding. I have not, in any of my posts on this thread, accused someone of bad breeding practices (not even you, Joan). I am merely being OPEN about my dog's condition & his pedigree. In fact, I have stated that recessive genetics are difficult to eliminate. But they are almost IMPOSSIBLE to eliminate if they are not admitted to, and selected away from. The FIRST step in dealing with a problem is to ADMIT there is one.

by ValK on 17 September 2020 - 17:09

i see. well, you did cut off "can be perceived as" from sentence :)
anyone reading your previous post (i'm sure been done sincerely and with best intend) see only one name - Puci.
it's rises association and guesswork that something wrong with that bitch, when in fact she might have nothing to epilepsy.


by Koots on 17 September 2020 - 17:09

Valk - I used the amount of words necessary to convey the message....and since I was quoting your statement from the previous post did not think it necessary to use the whole thing as readers can see for themselves.

If YOU drew the conclusion that I was bashing a certain dog or the breeder of that dog, then that is YOUR problem of interpretation. I am sure that other readers did not come to that conclusion. Arguing/debating with you is pointless, so I will not do so anymore. I stand by my statements & will NOT alter them or be intimidated into denying the FACTS.

by Nans gsd on 18 September 2020 - 17:09

Koots sorry you are going thru this but as a person who has seen epilapsy more than once in many different breeds it is just a horrific health issue. It will eventually kill the dog if let go. If you can ease the seizures for the animal in any way, even with combo of med's that is great; othewise it will get them and kill them. It is just a horrible way for these guys to have to live. So sorry. Saw one siberian bitch who's temperature rose to 110 degrees before it took her life. Not a good way to have to go.


by Koots on 18 September 2020 - 17:09

Nans - fortunately, my dog's seizures have been less than 2 min. in duration each time (I do time it). It is when they last for 5 min. or more that the dog's body temp rises to deadly level. The last interval between my dog's seizures was a record 31 days, but when he did seize he had 4 within 24 hrs - this is considered 'cluster seizures', so we gave him some valium from the vet for just such an event and that seemed to stop any further occurrence. I fully expect that one of these times he will not recover from his seizure, but in the meantime he is a happy, otherwise healthy dog that you wouldn't know had a serious medical condition to look at him. As with many recessive genetic conditions, it is very difficult to identify the dogs that carry it. Until all dogs are genetically tested and results are made public, people will be unaware of consequences when breeding certain dogs.



In humans, the inheritance of epilepsy is generally complex, meaning that it involves interactions of one or more genes with each other as well as potentially with environmental factors, and this is likely true of epilepsy in dogs as well. 



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