Linebreeding on a male ancestor compared to a female - Page 2

Pedigree Database


by BlackMalinois on 01 September 2020 - 06:09

Problem today in dog business , breeders show you only the superstars , the other trash nobody
have ever heard about....... let whe say in a litter are 11 eleven pups 3 dogs are great, the other 8 are
not what you expected......what does this say about the male ,female and line breeding???? and sometimes  a whole litter is a waste??

Same with all that famous stud GSD , you will only see the rockstars offspring on social media..., and the  trash offspring   ????


by duke1965 on 01 September 2020 - 10:09

BM acting up again LOL, what about all that famous KNPV studs , just the same, but that is not what the topic is about

by ValK on 01 September 2020 - 15:09

duke, on previous page you said "NO magic formulas in breeding, each breeding is a new challenge in itself".
in projection on prevalent approach of commercial breeding to produce "universal jack of all trade" - it is as you say.
but it's different if breeding goals have been narrowed toward certain purpose of utilization of dogs. in this case much easier to develop and keep uniformity be it dog's exterior or inner psychological potential. examples to this in front of everyone - show breeding with it visual uniformity when sometimes hard to distinguish one dog from another.
specialized breeding didn't produce sole phenotype but mental/psychological aspects was very much similar between those dogs.
i guess it could be considered as a formula of breeding.

by duke1965 on 01 September 2020 - 15:09

wouldnot call that a formula, rather a direction, and also in showline breeding the true breeders differ themselves from the puppy producing kennels by their knowledge and choices


by BlackMalinois on 01 September 2020 - 16:09



@ Duke you must be very frustrated about KNPV LOL , some K|NPV handlers must kick you in the balls
long time ago , something like that ///////////  LOL and LOL and LOL

A good honest breeder show you all the results from offspring in sport, genetics en medical
most don,t do this thats why there so much crap in this world they fool themself LOL .LOL and LOL again
this happens all over the world also in CZECH LOL....and LOL and LOL

I don,t blame it on the dogs but most of parts it is all that fantastic breeders in this world fault   LOL,LOL and LOL


by xPyrotechnic on 01 September 2020 - 16:09

Thanks for the replies have been very useful especially the article given to use by TIG i am now able to plan breedings more carfeully with a purpose and structure. With what duke is saying in regards to the chosisng the perfect female and breeding males to her that want the temperments or structure that you want this is correct but to further increase your chances of obtaining those genes that you are looking for one can use a 'formula' of some sort. Like the example i metioned about Pike del lupo nero through his mother was superb coupled with the linebreeding on Fero it create a superb litter which was then repeated becuase of how successful it was.

by ValK on 01 September 2020 - 23:09

duke, maybe you're right. i'm not much advanced in therminology used among breeders.

never heard about Lloyd Brackett and naturally became curious. found original writings. it's a very long read, pretty much boring and frankly useless waste of time.
i'm not a breeder and never was but even without deep knowledge i understand that genetic works in very strange and sometimes mysterios way. let's start from point that even most perfect dog do not contain absolutely perfect genetic bank. this dog somewhere in the past did have ancestors with this or that faults (physical or psycological). even faring as perfect dog she/he continue to bear some of genes of those inperfect predescesors and will pass them to offspring. sometimes those genes can remains suppresed and sometimes may show up their uglines even after several generation forward. perhaps that's a main reason why quest to reach perfection of breeding was and still not acheivable.

b.t.w. if someone have time and patience here is link to  Mr. German Shepherd's writting


by Hundmutter on 02 September 2020 - 02:09

Thank you very much for that last link ValK; finding that has gone towards answering the question I posed to TIG.
I suppose I was not really surprised to discover that Mr Brackett's 'take' on the working abilities issue was (to summarise) that if you are careful in selecting the right 'complete' foundation dogs, and then you apply his careful line breeding principles for ever more, always using the best and most 'complete' stock that you can, then those abilities and trainability will continue to pass on from generation to generation, and be maintained in the dogs you breed in the current generation. Many serious breeders the world over seem to genuinely believe, of course, that they have done / are continuing to do this. What a pity Show communities everywhere have, in the main. patently failed to test this principle by consistently working their stock.

by ValK on 02 September 2020 - 10:09

absolutely. but that knowledge about reinforcement of desirable traits by mating 2 with pronounced similar traits, was know from time when Earth was flat and hardly qualify to be newfound revelation.
question is how Mr. German Shepherd implemented this?
unfortunately i cannot find list of his dogs. 90 champs it's quite serious force and their impact on breed development in certain country obviously was significant.

Q Man

by Q Man on 02 September 2020 - 12:09

IF someone has all the answers and a perfect formula please let me know I'd be interested...Until that time I'll listen to what I call the "Old Breeders"...the ones who have done this and that and understand the mistakes that have been made and the better way to choose a mate...
I feel too many people listen to only Pedigrees or Titles and not in what the individual dogs are like...People need to be honest in what their female IS and what she needs to make it a good breeding...
I think Pedigrees...Personalities...even Titles are tools to be used in evaluating a dog for possible breeding...I say Titles ONLY because they can show what a dog can do and if they're trainable...
I think you have to put all of these tools together and evaluate whether this or that dog is what will Balance or make your bloodlines better...



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