Soft Working line Bitch - Page 2

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by ValK on 18 September 2020 - 12:09

duke's answer was up to the point.
you may train her to respond in certain situations by desirable manner. but it won't compensate absence of innate alertness and protection instinct and so reliability of protection's task.
you mentioned link of sire to police but nothing about if that dog still in LE service or was washed off and handed to private owner.
second point involves mating partner. mating total opposites do not produce "middle ground" result.

by Nans gsd on 18 September 2020 - 13:09

Actually I want my dog(s) to be friendly and all until the need arises. I think they all know when they are needed to arise to the occasion; however, I would direct the dog/training so you are positive what the outcome will be when he/she has a need to defend. In otherwards, get direction for protection training. good Luck

by Hired Dog on 18 September 2020 - 13:09

Nan, please dont depend on your dogs to tell you when the need arises, YOU tell them when you want them to protect you.


by Hundmutter on 18 September 2020 - 14:09

It sounds a bit like you guys are saying "If a 2 year old dog hasn't already shown it can go forward, bark & snarl, where there is no threat [perceived by dog OR owner], and no deliberate baiting by a decoy helper, then the dog has no courage".  Or how else is it to demonstrate 'suspicion' ?; and how do you know in the OP's case that she never has looked askance at something/someone but hasn't gone full-blown apeshit and so the owner has not noticed it ?

Whereas to me the dog is not proven 'soft', she is just untested.

Unless we're actually teaching a dog bitework, I don't want or need it to be shooting its mouth off at all and sundry for no good reason. Time enough for it to put the fear into somebody if they are doing something they should not be. If a dog IN THOSE CONDITIONS then wimps out, that is when I would decide it is soft or a nervebag, not before it is faced with any test.

by ValK on 18 September 2020 - 15:09

this have nothing to do with courage or confidence.
dog may be perfectly confident and bold but totally lack of alertness and aloofness toward strangers even if a threat from them quite obvious.

by Hired Dog on 18 September 2020 - 15:09

Hund, I do NOT want my dog to bark at everything and everyone, I DO want it to be aware, suspicious even of some guy walking towards us at 5 AM when we go for a walk.
I do NOT walk my dog to become a social whore and die to meet that stranger at 5 AM or any AM actually, I want social neutrality, neither avoiding nor seeking attention.
To demonstrate that, my puppy shows me his behavior by paying undivided attention to that stranger when we come across one. No barking, some excitement in the form of hackles rising, a little muffled growl perhaps, thats it.

As far as the OP question, I could write a book about every possible scenario, every single little detail that could, may, would, etc happen, but, this is not the place and I do not have the temperament for it.


by Hundmutter on 18 September 2020 - 17:09

Looking at more of the jigsaw picture here, this is a ManPol bred puppy who was apparently not kept for operational K9 training but sold to somebody as a pet dog. Suspect not even with dogsports / 'protection' in mind. And indeed the OP says she has no such training - not at all uncommon over here. And that he had her from 11 weeks. Just assessed by the Police as unsuitable for them to keep, therefore. Despite impeccable W/L breeding.

There will doubtless have been other pups in her litter which were kept, were trained, and may well have by now have passed / be passing out as Operational General Duties Police Dogs. This means that an experienced Officer has evaluated this particular bitch as not up to the standard they were looking for to put into Training; it does not necessarily mean that she was thought at 10 weeks to be 'soft / too soft' or untypical of the breed in her nature, it may have been for some other reason.

It is unlikely that the OP has had eyes on his dog every waking minute 24/7 since he got her; no doubt she has been left by herself in house or garden from time to time. There may well have been times when she took it on her own initiative to bark or hackled up and growled at somebody e.g. approaching the house, and the OP will not have seen this. The fact that she (so far) never did this to friends, family, invited guests while the OP was with her and watching her may indicate no more than her acceptance of his leadership. If she is taking her cues from him, that's good, yes ? Means he is making the decisions, not her. Even without bitework Training, this is perfectly possible.

As others have pointed out, ya sometimes never know what you've got 'till circumstances mean the dog is forced to defend you (or itself). My caution to the OP would be: not to expect miracles, this [assuming the Police assessor knew his or her stuff, which I would assume] would not have been a sale to an ordinary home if the bitch pup looked to be worth hanging onto, so there is maybe no reason to expect her to suddenly turn into a dog of podium potential, or the best working dog since Pike or whoever. Just not to write her off as unable to display any breed-typical backbone until she has done some formal Training or been placed in a threatening sitution which will properly either show what she's made of or expose her as 'chicken'. Either way, enjoy her for what she DOES bring to your household.


Edited to add: @Hired Dog, I have never had any great need to walk my dog at 5 am (although I could have done so with any of them) so I don't know that their demeanor became any more suspicious / cautious / threatening. I do know that some were more likely to be that way toward strangers (at any time of day or night) than were others. Not neccessarily the ones which ended up having to back it up.

It is Sod's Law that when I have actually NEEDED to fight against an assault, I have not had a dog with me (indeed not even owned one at that time); except for the couple of occasions I referred to earlier when my S/L bitch placed herself between me and a threatening man, and in one case bit him. Not that such attacks are frequent.

by Nans gsd on 18 September 2020 - 17:09

Yes Hired Dog; I want to be able to tell my dog when I need them; probably did not word that correctly but my point was to be aware and protection train so you do have some control of the situation. Thank you for your help.

by Hired Dog on 18 September 2020 - 18:09

Hund, I wake up at 4 AM 7 days a week, I have for 40 years. Here, its the only time to walk the dog or myself, the heat during the day gets up to 108 and there is no way....
On the mornings I go to the gym, we walk even earlier so that I can be at the gym by 5:45 AM and go to work. There are not that many people out there, but, its nice to know that he does what I said earlier.

I am very familiar with the law you speak of, I include it in all my planning, so, I dont leave home without being "protected".

by ValK on 18 September 2020 - 21:09


OP stated source where sire come from but nothing about usage in LE at present.
dame described as super friendly which bring to conclusion that breeding wasn't specialized or person/s, who managed such breeding do not familiar even with simple basics of matching mating.
2 y.o. dog is old enough to reveal itself. what this dog is now, is what this dog will be for rest of her life.
if that isn't what owner have expected and now become disappointed - would be best just to give that dog to someone, who could be happy with her for what she is.
after all a bad experience is an experience too :)


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