by Hundmutter on 20 September 2020 - 11:09
WR I know what he wrote, I read the original post half a dozen times while composing my thoughts on his query. While I can see the question from Hired Dog's perspective, I got a distinct impression that the interest in any guarding ability had been very much an afterthought of the OP's.
by Hired Dog on 20 September 2020 - 12:09
I hope they are all happy with their dogs and life goes on.
by hexe on 20 September 2020 - 13:09
Do I think that this dog is likely to be K9 material? No, of course not, but few civilians have any need for, or enough experience to handle, that level of hardness in a family dog. I got the impression that the OP just wants to know if his bitch might react in a protective manner in the event someone were to threaten their family. A good helper who is a stranger to the dog can convey a real enough sense of antagonistic behavior to elicit whatever protective or defensive response she might possess, and answer the OP's question once and for all.
by Rik on 20 September 2020 - 13:09
by ValK on 20 September 2020 - 14:09
"ValK : Unless the OP is a closet Police Dog Handler & not telling us (and he certainly does not 'sound' like one to me), the fact is that he said he has had the bitch since she was 11 weeks old. You just have to read the original posted question. Not querying pros and cons of the parents' abilities*.
He has also said - on his concurrent thred under different username Zarasdad - she has done no 'work' or sports training.
Which she would have to have done, even if not completed, in order to get 'washed out' from a PD course. (Although I am fairly sure these training courses do not start as early as 10 weeks)."
why i would participate in discussion, if i haven't read initial post :)
if OP is LE K9 handler, it wouldn't be needed for him or her to ask such question.
this dog is just typical representative of majority of nowadays GSD stock, produced mainly to be pets. if dog in question do not fit for protection role - leave it as is. no sense to push and try it.
i expressed doubt earlier that dog most likely has nothing to do with specialized police breeding. it's hard to imagine such lack of knowledge in arranging this sort of mating to be done in professional environment.
by Hundmutter on 21 September 2020 - 03:09
@ ValK : 'If OP is a k9 handler he wouldn't need to ask the question' - Well, quite ! But he did ask it. So he can have an answer. That's not 'pushing' anything; its just trying to give him a possible answer (or two), based in the little info he gave us. [As Rik says, it has been an interesting discussion for its own sake.]
If he is just asking 'out of interest' re the breed, rather than being fixed on finding out if he has a dog which WILL definitely act as a house / family guard dog, then perhaps his non-reappearance may have more to do with being put off by the muddle over not covering the same topic in separate posts, which he got into right at the start. ???
Yes he does seem to be (again, based on what little info we have) a 'newbie'. But asking questions is how everyone learns, in the beginning. Either way, he now has some anwers, in that he can (a) believe his bitch IS genetically flawed, no question, and will NEVER defend him and his; and that's probably the fault of her parents being unsuitable for the task of producing Police Dogs (I'd love to see you argue that with Manchester Police Dog Section managers).
OR (b) he accepts that 'you do not KNOW until its tested' along the lines that Hexe and I and others have been arguing since the start of the thred. That sometimes even a dog with apparently not one iota of aggression in its body can still 'come up trumps' when it becomes necessary - often as much to the owner's surprise, as anyone elses. (NOTE: none of us have claimed it 100% definitely WILL !!!) - But that is often sufficient for many pet owners.
There have been enough examples given by regular posters, all experienced dog / GSD owners, all who have been around the block a bit, I think I'm correct in saying none of us is exactly in the first flush of youth, of dogs who NOBODY would have thought were good for anything except beauty parades or 'performing' in a sports arena, but who attacked assailants or intruders when the chips were down. Do you then believe we are all suffering some collective international multi-dog hallucination ?
@ Hired: I do hear you. But 'we' cannot prevent that universal delusion, either by keeping quiet about otherwise docile GSDs who prove brave when it is needed, or pretending that everyone agrees the 'only' Shepherd is one resolved enough to tackle every enemy, every time (under command of course), and that is what everybody wants / should want; Von Stephanitz said 'Keep my dog a working dog', he did not say "keep my dog a War Dog."
@ Hexe : Absolutely. :-)
by Hired Dog on 21 September 2020 - 04:09
Delusion IS the right word here, you are correct. Just like you dont go into battle with an unproven gun, you dont depend on your pet for real, actual protection and yes, I am sure there is that that 1% that will surprise you, but, that is not of a % for me to risk my well being on.
No, I do not want a war dog, I am not at war, but, I do live in a large city with its share of crime and I do want something that will give me enough time to get my finger off the trigger guard.
by Rik on 21 September 2020 - 08:09
one of the first things I noticed about SV conformation judges is that they do their complete evaluation and never touch the dog. I found this very strange since AKC/CKC judges are all over the dog.
I have a friend who is a retired SV approved judge and I asked him about it. He said it stems from a time when it was not safe to touch the dogs. handlers would lift the dogs front off the ground so testicles could be verified visually. I don't know the validity of these statements, but he is quite a student of the breed and I have no reason to doubt him.
so war dog or not, there was a time when one did not have to wonder the character of the dog. it was assumed by those at the highest levels the dog would bite without hesitation.
I do disagree on one point, reading V. S., he did set out to produce a war dog when herding started trailing off. and was very successful, IMO. producing the best the world had ever seen.
by Hired Dog on 21 September 2020 - 09:09