Breeding Father - Daughter - Page 2

****ADMIN EDIT,  personal insults and unfounded claims. mrdarcy (mod)*****

 It is no wonder that the GSD is losing all of the traits that it was once famous for.

Mackenzie

 

the better question would be "why would anyone breed that close".

the only correct answer is that it is a very knowledegable/active breeder, with many years success (in whatever venue) and generations of knowledge of the good/bad behind the breeding.

also very willing to cull (and that can include spay/neuter, not just put down).

in breeding, as much bad can come through as good.

right now, in the American Show World, it is almost 99% line breeding/inbreeding on a very top producer who has/had DM (not sure he is still alive) and I'm not talking a carrier, it's a dog with DM.

jmo,
Rik

Agree with Rick. He quotes a big figure in the US show world. Everyone should take note of that.

Mackenzie

While it's in a different breed, I just found evidence of such.

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/akita/dog.html?id=2102129-orients-pride-bold-and-beautiful?_v=20190723081058, this bitch's sire is the son of her dam, https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/akita/dog.html?id=959172-orients-pride-sweet-n-sassy?_v=20200813174144

I can't see any reason for the breeding.

It would be interesting to see the results from all of this inbreeding and incest matings. What are the gains and losses from such breeding and the value obtained from the results. Was it worth it? The gains and losses are not always in equal proportions. We must also look deeper than just conformation and include that reasoning into the future of the breed.

Mackenzie

 

by Diamondgal on 18 December 2021 - 18:12

While it's in a different breed, I just found evidence of such.

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/akita/dog.html?id=2102129-orients-pride-bold-and-beautiful?_v=20190723081058, this bitch's sire is the son of her dam, https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/akita/dog.html?id=959172-orients-pride-sweet-n-sassy?_v=20200813174144

I can't see any reason for the breeding.

 

by Rik on 18 December 2021 - 14:12

the better question would be "why would anyone breed that close".

the only correct answer is that it is a very knowledegable/active breeder, with many years success (in whatever venue) and generations of knowledge of the good/bad behind the breeding.

also very willing to cull (and that can include spay/neuter, not just put down).

in breeding, as much bad can come through as good.

right now, in the American Show World, it is almost 99% line breeding/inbreeding on a very top producer who has/had DM (not sure he is still alive) and I'm not talking a carrier, it's a dog with DM.

jmo,
Rik

 

Looks like someone's trying to multiply/strengthen/fix (establish, not repair)) certain genes with all the incest and in-breeding. Given AKC and CAN Champions, high pointed dogs, etc. there MIGHT be a good reason, but without knowing the dogs, themselves, and not particularly familiar with the breed and health issues/overall needs for the breed genetically, I couldn't say.

However, clicking on the progeny link, one of the two dogs on PDB was the JCH RUS and CH RUS (stud was AKC CH).  After that, there are a bunch of entries that need breed book info, so can't tell what's going on downline.

Your dogs don't get to be CH without a LOT of hard work, knowledge, time, and money, though.

 

EDITED TO ADD:  Maybe someone is trying to earn GRAND CHAMPION (GRCH)

And the puppy pic is adorable.

 

 

The only kennel I remotely recognize in that pedigree is the Eurdora dogs. But they're so far back in the pedigree, they don't genetically offer anything to the recent dogs. The kennel itself, no longer exists.

hey cat, I'm sure I'm missing something as I know you are serious GSD folk, just not seeing the connection to what I posted.

best,
Rik

right now, in the American Show World, it is almost 99% line breeding/inbreeding on a very top producer who has/had DM (not sure he is still alive) and I'm not talking a carrier, it's a dog with DM.

Rik, are you willing to name names? (You can PM me if you wish.) 

by Rik on 20 December 2021 - 19:12

hey cat, I'm sure I'm missing something as I know you are serious GSD folk, just not seeing the connection to what I posted.

best,
Rik

 

by Rik on 18 December 2021 - 14:12

the better question would be "why would anyone breed that close".

the only correct answer is that it is a very knowledegable/active breeder, with many years success (in whatever venue) and generations of knowledge of the good/bad behind the breeding.

also very willing to cull (and that can include spay/neuter, not just put down).

 

Hey, Rik-

Your post got me to thinking and trying to figure out a likely "why" about the incestuous/inbred (Akita pedigree) so after coming up with what I thought was a possibility based on what I could see onthe  PDB entries, I posted what I did.

I figure producing, training, etc. dogs that earn CH is success, and it looks as if whoever it is (Akita pedigree) is continuing to produce CH, since one of the two progeny earned both JCH and CH. There are only two progeny listed, so perhaps an indication of culling.  IMHO, people earning AKC CH and CAN CH are likely very knowledgable, experienced, and active.

 

I'm a babe in the woods compared to so many here . . . it's entirely possible I've got the Akita breeder(s) motives wrong