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by Blitzen on 16 October 2011 - 13:10
You are off to a great start with young dogs. There's no rush. My last GSD didn't get her 3rd leg for her UD until she was almost 10 years old. I didn't train her, she was my learner dog. She was around 4 when she earned her Sch3 and then went on to OB and agility. I don't think I would have had the skill to take her so many titles, but it was wonderful having her as my teacher. I don't think I'll ever have another dog like her.
by Sheesh on 16 October 2011 - 14:10
Awesome Blitzen. What an amazing journey, and you are so fortunate to be sharing it with such a special girl! I love hearing stories like yours.
T
by SchaeferhundSchH on 16 October 2011 - 14:10
The age is a huge problem I've noticed. Everyone is trying to hurry as soon as their dogs are 15 months they jump in and get a BH and as soon as their dog is 18 months they go trying for a SchH1.
I know someone like this who is trying to hurry hurry. It saddens me because they thought bragging their 5 month old puppy did a whole BH routine was great.
IMO the dog was way to young to earn the titles it has. Don't get me wrong I'm happy for them but they seem more concerned about putting letters around their dogs name than what is actually good for the dog itself. Like you guys said, each dog has its clock. Let them get to where they need to be.
Rushing into titles and getting them sooner doesn't give you a magical award. And having a ScH1 doesn't give you fairy dust magical sperm or eggs that make better puppies. Just relax and enjoy the ride for what it is. I'm big on foundation work and not leaving holes in a dogs training, and rushing into things leaves holes.
I know someone like this who is trying to hurry hurry. It saddens me because they thought bragging their 5 month old puppy did a whole BH routine was great.
IMO the dog was way to young to earn the titles it has. Don't get me wrong I'm happy for them but they seem more concerned about putting letters around their dogs name than what is actually good for the dog itself. Like you guys said, each dog has its clock. Let them get to where they need to be.
Rushing into titles and getting them sooner doesn't give you a magical award. And having a ScH1 doesn't give you fairy dust magical sperm or eggs that make better puppies. Just relax and enjoy the ride for what it is. I'm big on foundation work and not leaving holes in a dogs training, and rushing into things leaves holes.
by Sheesh on 16 October 2011 - 14:10
Love it! LMAO! Fairy dust and magic sperm! ROFLMAO! If only!
T
by Blitzen on 16 October 2011 - 14:10
Theresa, I'd give 5 years of my life to have her back with me. I lost her in May.
by VonIsengard on 16 October 2011 - 14:10
In a word, yes- provided the dog and owner/owner have the right relationship and understanding of one another. After working with a lot of show line dogs over the years, my own and MANY others, and some working lines as well, this is the conclusion I have come to. Not always for sport mind you, AKC, PPD, behavioral issues, more recently K9, etc.
Show lines do not train like working lines. In general (yes, of course there are exceptions), working lines have higher prey drive and, energy, and overall desire to go and do stuff omgomgrightnowletsgogogogogo! I feel this makes them much more adaptable when it comes to changing handlers, etc. Malinois are similar, provided, of course, the handlers in question are experienced.
Show lines, males in particular, mature slowly. They tend to be a bit more dramatic, sometimes pouty, and to bring one to it's full potential they absolutely must have a strong relationship with their handler. They do not always work simply for love of work. A bond is vital. I have been saying for years the reason so many show lines have weak work is rushed, inconsistent, prey-only training. First, many show dogs do not have the intense prey drive of a working line. You want a show line to bring it to the field, they need to think it just may be real, not a routine. Now, take your prey-only, imbalanced training and stick it on a dog who at 3 years old has had 2 owners, 3 trainer, half a dozen handlers, and lives it's life in a kennel. Do you really think they give a crap at who's at the end of that leash? Do you think they always want to play the "game" with these strangers?
They must also be taught to handle pressure. No pussy-footing around them, ignore it when they get a little sulky, and believe me, they get over it. If you really think a well timed, fair correction or two, even as a pup, is going to "ruin" your dog, you're raising your dog to be an oversensitive sissy or you have a genuinely weak dog. I wish breeders and "trainers" would stop brainwashing people into thinking that. Teach a young dog to handle a bit of pressure and as an adult they'll eat it for breakfast.
I have trained way too many hard-assed showline dogs over the years to ever believe they are weak. Some are, sure. So are some working lines. A show dog can be excellent, too, but it requires a different approach than many working dogs, and a strong foundation of love and trust between dog and handler. You must balance defense into the prey, and the truth of the matter it, not many decoys know how to do that well, or the humility to admit it. Easier to say because your dog isn't flipping over, screaming, and frothing at the mouth at 4 months for a puppy tug, it's "just a show dog."
I love a calm dog, myself. They keep a nice clear head and don't waste their strength or energy acting like a spaz before it's time to act. These dogs can be more suitably converted to house pets, in many cases, even more people with lesser experience. There is a place for show lines in the breed, but if we as show dog lovers want to stop being sneered at we need to step back and look at what our dogs really need, and start giving it to them.
Show lines do not train like working lines. In general (yes, of course there are exceptions), working lines have higher prey drive and, energy, and overall desire to go and do stuff omgomgrightnowletsgogogogogo! I feel this makes them much more adaptable when it comes to changing handlers, etc. Malinois are similar, provided, of course, the handlers in question are experienced.
Show lines, males in particular, mature slowly. They tend to be a bit more dramatic, sometimes pouty, and to bring one to it's full potential they absolutely must have a strong relationship with their handler. They do not always work simply for love of work. A bond is vital. I have been saying for years the reason so many show lines have weak work is rushed, inconsistent, prey-only training. First, many show dogs do not have the intense prey drive of a working line. You want a show line to bring it to the field, they need to think it just may be real, not a routine. Now, take your prey-only, imbalanced training and stick it on a dog who at 3 years old has had 2 owners, 3 trainer, half a dozen handlers, and lives it's life in a kennel. Do you really think they give a crap at who's at the end of that leash? Do you think they always want to play the "game" with these strangers?
They must also be taught to handle pressure. No pussy-footing around them, ignore it when they get a little sulky, and believe me, they get over it. If you really think a well timed, fair correction or two, even as a pup, is going to "ruin" your dog, you're raising your dog to be an oversensitive sissy or you have a genuinely weak dog. I wish breeders and "trainers" would stop brainwashing people into thinking that. Teach a young dog to handle a bit of pressure and as an adult they'll eat it for breakfast.
I have trained way too many hard-assed showline dogs over the years to ever believe they are weak. Some are, sure. So are some working lines. A show dog can be excellent, too, but it requires a different approach than many working dogs, and a strong foundation of love and trust between dog and handler. You must balance defense into the prey, and the truth of the matter it, not many decoys know how to do that well, or the humility to admit it. Easier to say because your dog isn't flipping over, screaming, and frothing at the mouth at 4 months for a puppy tug, it's "just a show dog."
I love a calm dog, myself. They keep a nice clear head and don't waste their strength or energy acting like a spaz before it's time to act. These dogs can be more suitably converted to house pets, in many cases, even more people with lesser experience. There is a place for show lines in the breed, but if we as show dog lovers want to stop being sneered at we need to step back and look at what our dogs really need, and start giving it to them.
by SchaeferhundSchH on 16 October 2011 - 14:10
by GSDNewbie on 16 October 2011 - 15:10
You nailed it vonIsengard
by CMathis on 16 October 2011 - 16:10
VonIsengard You make some very good points.
If people will put the time into building the relationship with their dog I think they will get 10X more out of the training and the dog.
It is too easy to dismiss a showline dog as a weak dog because he/she does not turn on the same way alot of your working lines will. Out of the dogs that I have titled most of them have had a higher defense drive than prey drive. This simply meant that they needed to be worked differently. The male that I have now has very nice prey drive and less defense. I think it is all about being able to work the dog as an individual rather than every dog the same way.
I do all of the training and titling myself because I want to know what is there in trainablity and drives. It helps me to pick a breeding partner to best suit my female if I decide to breed.
Best Regards,
Cheryl
If people will put the time into building the relationship with their dog I think they will get 10X more out of the training and the dog.
It is too easy to dismiss a showline dog as a weak dog because he/she does not turn on the same way alot of your working lines will. Out of the dogs that I have titled most of them have had a higher defense drive than prey drive. This simply meant that they needed to be worked differently. The male that I have now has very nice prey drive and less defense. I think it is all about being able to work the dog as an individual rather than every dog the same way.
I do all of the training and titling myself because I want to know what is there in trainablity and drives. It helps me to pick a breeding partner to best suit my female if I decide to breed.
Best Regards,
Cheryl
by VonIsengard on 16 October 2011 - 17:10
It helps me to pick a breeding partner to best suit my female if I decide to breed.
Ding ding ding!
The weak dogs that are out there are a direct result of breeders not knowing/caring what the workability of their breding stock is. How does a breeder complement their dog's strength and weaknesses if they don't know them? Should they take the word of the "trainer" who got their scorebook signed? Or a local, inexperienced decoy who looks at the dog and only sees a rushed, mediocre title and not the dog underneath? Where does the knowledge come from if not working these dogs themselves?
The title is meant to out the weaker dogs, not disguise them so they can be snuck into an already corrupted gene pool. A shame how a well-intentioned breed test has become manipulated.
Ding ding ding!
The weak dogs that are out there are a direct result of breeders not knowing/caring what the workability of their breding stock is. How does a breeder complement their dog's strength and weaknesses if they don't know them? Should they take the word of the "trainer" who got their scorebook signed? Or a local, inexperienced decoy who looks at the dog and only sees a rushed, mediocre title and not the dog underneath? Where does the knowledge come from if not working these dogs themselves?
The title is meant to out the weaker dogs, not disguise them so they can be snuck into an already corrupted gene pool. A shame how a well-intentioned breed test has become manipulated.
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