German Shepherd Hips - XRays - Not sure on their rating - Page 2

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Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 01 May 2020 - 04:05

Emory, who - exactly - are all these 'trained professionals' who can identify HD at 3 or 4 months of age ?

What jumps out at me in the OFA piece you linked is that OFA found that when they still had a TWO YEAR starting point, dogs done @ ONE year were regarded as 'prelims', and there was little change per dog. They brought their requirement down to ONE year, lining up with the British and SV schemes, and have not lowered it again since. Even given the willingness to accept prelims. How many decades is that, again ?

In radiographical terms, a dysplastic dog may show no clinical signs at all, even to the 'trained eye'; the other clues to the existence of the condition emerge as the pup grows. The badly moving dog may have excellent hips; the working dog that is a sound mover and can jump may delude its owner into thinking it is not dysplastic. The point that needs to be established is that although there are certain indications that might point to HD, these are not positive proof.

Some dogs are so bady crippled by HD they need to be put down, but others with a similar radiographic status can be agile and versatile. The rest is for the breeders to work with, to reduce what is passed onto future generations.

Given what is written about HD X rays, I honestly cannot credit that any vet, specially trained or otherwise, can tell anything about ball and socket development in a still growing puppy that young; unless maybe it is a major problem, e.g. that there are already such shallow sockets as to be almost non existent. In which case the purchaser would very likely be on a 'hiding to nothing' in any case. Would not ALL the HD Schemes have adopted the prelims option by now, if there was merit in it ?

And I certainly cannot see how this vet was able to tell HD status from a side-on X ray taken to look for something else.

Especially when they appear to have been so vague with their client s/he thinks they have pics of elbows, when all that's shown is hocks.


emoryg

by emoryg on 01 May 2020 - 08:05

Hund, the OFA uses board certified veterinary radiologist for their official evaluations.  These are the professional I mentioned.  According to the article below, HD can be identified as early as 30 days from birth.   

https://www.dvm360.com/view/canine-hip-dysplasia-proceedings


Rik

by Rik on 01 May 2020 - 08:05

I think "major problems" are the purpose of prelims. also elbows issues, such as UAP can be identified.

I usually did prelims @ approx 6 months and 90% of the time I did not need to send them off for evaluation. I just wanted to see if everything looked normal and no obvious issues.

to each his own, but IMO, prelims are a tool, nothing more or less for someone determining whether to shell out money for a prospect or even to determine to put more time into one of their own breeding.


emoryg

by emoryg on 01 May 2020 - 09:05

Rik, same with puppies on the working end. If an obvious problem is observed, do I really want to invest the time and resources in the dog.

Starting at an early age, normal hips tend to stay normal. The one pup that I mentioned earlier who was not normal, was later classified as medium HD by the SV. I initially discounted the puppy xrays as too soon to tell and spent time with him anyway. He was sold at 16 months with the buyer aware of his hip status. He ended up working drug interdiction for almost ten years. Go figure.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1t8z3q19f7sd7ma/SV-Datenbank%20-%20Drake%20vom%20Licher-Berg%20%28SZ%208004052%29.pdf?dl=0


by cpluspluscrowe on 01 May 2020 - 10:05

Thank you everyone for your replies and great advice! It has been a lot of help!

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 02 May 2020 - 04:05

Yes, despite my own misgivings about the value of early radiography and the OFAs acceptance of the preliminary X rays angle, I would not discourage the OP from seeking to do OFA 'prelims' if he/she wants, its their money - but I would like them to ensure that the X-rays sent are done properly in the first place. Newbies get taken advantage of by some vets, as well as some breeders.

Emory, TY for that 2nd link - I'll have a read, and maybe come back on it.





 


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