british hip and elbow scores - Page 2

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Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 28 April 2020 - 02:04

Thanks TIG that one is useful but not for this thred, as it does not show comparison with the UK system which is what Duke actually asked for. As you wrote, not the one looked for.

Duke when you said 'breed' did you mean something other than GSDs or were you thinking 'bloodline / kennel lines' ?

by duke1965 on 28 April 2020 - 04:04

different breed

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 28 April 2020 - 10:04

Cheers Duke - it might be worth bearing in mind that there are sometimes differences in the levels considered highest for breeding in some breeds over others, due e.g. to variations in the incidence of HD; so might be worth checking the web for the major UK Breed Clubs in whichever breed it is, to see if they have recommendations, they may not be the same as for GSD ?

by duke1965 on 28 April 2020 - 12:04

Hundmutter, in the dogworld, worldwide its hard to sell a pup or dog, when said dog or pups parents dont have A or 0/0 hips and elbows, I have been checking on dogs from few breeds to implement in breedingprogram for LE, so I dont really care what breedclubrules are, seen a bunch of nice dogs from UK, but till now NONE of them came near passing hip and elbow scores, looking at breedingdogs now and also most scores are quite a bit away from A or 0/0


bladeedge

by bladeedge on 28 April 2020 - 12:04

As long as they are no higher than 12 on each hip breeding will be fine. Iv breed many liters and have never been anything over 12 Hips I only ever seen 2 dogs with 00 on hips and 00 on elbows and that is in 20 years. I will not breed anything that has higher than 00 on elbows. I being around dogs and see enough liters sold and enough bitches breed in programs never seen any problems with selling puppies for any roll if the mother and fathers are the way I have described. And by the way my vet is 45 years in his job and scanned thousands of dogs and he has scanned only 1 dog with 00 hips . It's not easy to find. Imo it's a lot more strict than the sv

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 29 April 2020 - 04:04

My last scanned 'n' scored dog (UK) was 3:3; and looking through Survey reports here, he was not in that much of a minority in recent UK bred stock, based on (all) German lines. Other considerations aside, I would therefore have been more than happy to breed with that "score that wasn't 0:0".

True, however, that in more recent years the number of 0:0 scores seems to have dropped, compared with previous decades. There have been rumours that the Panel was being particularly harsh on scoring GSDs (not all the other breeds) at the time period Taz's were done - mid 2000s - (suggesting that maybe he could therefore have been given 2:2 or 1:1, at least, on a 'good' day) - for canine 'political' reasons. I do not have a clue whether there was any truth in that ! But I am not a 'name', nor was my mentor particularly, and my dogs have not been very successful well-known Showdogs, so if that was happening, and my scores were higher than they might have been, how much less likely was a well-bred dog with 0:0 hips from a famous kennel going to get its due ? But if 'even' hips still scored evenly, and the difference was only by a point or two on each hip, how much difference would that have made anyway - unless a breeder was in the "Not breeding with anything unless it has a perfect score" camp ?  I do not understand - given what we know about the nature and occurance of HD & that I referred to above - how insisting on a 0:0 score would ever guarantee HD-free pups.

Duke: taking all that into consideration, and not suggesting that anyone should be telling you that you 'have' to use only perfect hips in whatever breed this is (if you could find them anyway - some breeds have none to start with); just thought you might be interested in what the regular breeders associated with the breed were choosing to do ? It is breeders who make up the Clubs, after all. Clubs may recommend, they rarely dictate. 

I would just also point out that NONE of the other national schemes give a CLEAR indication that a dog which gets a Pass (whatever the grade is titled) has the equivalent of "0:0" or 'perfect'; the UK being the only numbering system, it's also the only one which tells you, in that amount of detail. just how good decent hips are !


by duke1965 on 29 April 2020 - 06:04

hundmutter, few things for me to think about,

first, if I start breeding, its better to start out with good healthscores, not saying its guarantee or dogs with passing scores wont work

secondly, clients (especially American LE vendors) are getting extremely crazy on xrays, and are therefore pasiing by on many real good dogs, because many times the people in charge have absolutely no clue whatsoever, we have been told by vets that work for army or police, that if a dog gets injury 2 years after purchase and shows arthroses or damage on the xray, the vet that approved that dog for purchase will get a serious call to do better and be more strict on approving xrays

we see dogs with perfect xrays being rejected on regular bases

also the improved computerized ways to view xrays is not helping


emoryg

by emoryg on 29 April 2020 - 11:04

For those who have never seen it, here is the German SV evaluation on hips.  The xray submitted is also attached.  It would be interesting to see the BVA or other assessment sheets for comparison. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aeppue8ka7swdw3/Farin%20SV.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wr0k8ucs2n8injm/Farin%20Hips.jpg?dl=0


by duke1965 on 29 April 2020 - 13:04

emoryg, funny thats an A normal, this xrays will be rejected by many LE, will be called loose hips and deformation in femur head

emoryg

by emoryg on 29 April 2020 - 14:04

That's crazy! I would work those hips any day. Wonder how many dogs are getting passed up because someone had no idea about reading hips?

Since you're overseas, I'm not sure if you have seen our OFA scheme. This is the prelimnary report they issue for dogs less than two years of age.  I will look for an official two years and up evaluation if you haven't seen one.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9jiia4jq8yeg32y/Farin%20OFA.jpg?dl=0

 






 


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