by Pirschgang on 03 October 2020 - 17:10
by ValK on 03 October 2020 - 18:10
for that dogs not need to be famous and highly ranked in any applicable practical venues.
by Hundmutter on 04 October 2020 - 03:10
by Pirschgang on 06 October 2020 - 14:10
by jdiogoc on 06 October 2020 - 14:10
However, take all of this with a grain of salt. I remember seeing a dog with 30 progeny normal/normal and after one year he had 2 dysplastic sons, rocketing his lower than 70 HD-ZW to 80 something... Maybe all GSD are carriers at this point and environmental prevention is the only solution...? A discussion for another day :)
by Baerenfangs Erbe on 06 October 2020 - 15:10
by Sunsilver on 07 October 2020 - 01:10
However, take all of this with a grain of salt. I remember seeing a dog with 30 progeny normal/normal and after one year he had 2 dysplastic sons, rocketing his lower than 70 HD-ZW to 80 something..
Tell me about it! My older female was a complete outcross genetically, with 5 generations of good hips on both sides of the pedigree. She x-rayed as mildly dysplastic in one hip at 2 years of age. It was heartbreaking!
by Hundmutter on 07 October 2020 - 03:10
Mine, and I'm sure ValK's, replies were hardly "abstract, feelgood" statements; rather, they come from the long-term experience that HD can, as Sunsilver examples, 'come out of nowhere', despite the best efforts to NOT produce it, through careful selection of tested and wherever possible use of prepotent breeding stock. Also, Pirschgang, you need to take into account the value to any mating - even using 'the' "HD improver" dog of the moment - of the 50% from whichever partner you choose for that dog.
And, as BE points out, it can also be "fiddled"...
Even jdiogoc has to admit HD is hardly a matter for any certainty.
by jdiogoc on 07 October 2020 - 06:10
The ZW is only as good as how many dogs have actually been xrayed and rated. You can keep the ZW artificially low by simply not sending the xrays in if they are bad.
Yes, this is true, but that's why I only mentioned dogs with a lot of progeny all over the world since that increases chances of someone sending a "bad" score (bear in mind that even an "a2" will be bad for these very low ZW dogs),
Hundmutter I hope you didn't take the abstract, feel-good comment as an insult, it really wasn't one and I didn't mean to disrespect anyone. And yes, I agree it hardly is a matter for any certainty
by Hundmutter on 07 October 2020 - 09:10
I do not think we will ever breed HD 'out' of the GSD. I think the genetic expression is too ingrained and too complicated.There are also outstanding environmental questions re cause. I do however think we should do all in our breeding power to reduce the incidence of producing future cases. Irresponsible not too; the dogs who are SO good and have so much to offer that get used, despite a higher than 'breed mean' score, or no A stamp etc, are very few and far between; and that choice is best left to experienced expert breeders, not risked by amateurs and BYB. I think therein lies the danger in promoting any single stud dogs as "improvers" for hips. The route should lie in testing and bringing together 'families' of dogs who have consistently good hip records over a long period, on both sire & dam's sides - but being prepared to recognise that, even then, there are no 100% guarantees HD will not sometimes turn up.