some thoughts on inherited/genetic character vs. environmental trained - Page 7

Centurian, those are some nice looking dogs. 

Emoryg I hope you don't mind I edit this post  Western Rider.

BE, great video of Athos and Champ.  I certainly applaud you for the training you put into your dogs.  You’re no amateur and it certainly shows in the work you do with them. 

BE, yes that is the one. like I said, the image imprinted in my head of service dog are in the little pink vests rolling around in buggies at the market.

your experience in word and then seeing the dog on video in a totally different environment on the field really kind of opened my eyes.

and you could have written several books on a GSD functioning on 2 different (and opposite} levels and without the video, I would still never fully understood and appreciated.

I also have a new respect for all those who do not need visual aids. I'm just not one of those people. left brain/right brain, yada,yada,yada.

cent certainly did not seem offended and did provide dogs to back up his knowledge/experience when asked.

really curious why some seem to be so offended for him?

Rik
 

GK1
Was the 5 week old pup, ValK, reacting to vaccine or maybe upset stomach, or just cranky and tired similar to 6 month old human infant?

from that reply i see you really didn't grasp what was on in that interaction of pup vs. human and how that did reflect innate nature of pup.
yes, neither pup is mine. last pup i had was back in 2005, passed away 2017.

GK1
Yet according to ValK, somehow this 5 week old Ralf shows more promise for protection than the 11 week old pup belonging to duke1965, which ValK basically assessed as an “undetermined” in terms of protection quality and stress tolerance - even though duke1965 was actually testing the 11 week old rigorously considering it’s still a very young pup.

undetermined - not yet known/ascertained.
"in terms of protection quality and stress tolerance" one need to see dog's (pup in this case) reaction, action and response to stress. in the test wasn't such. test, as duke emphasized, for possession drive. possession trait might be useful but cannot itself substitute bunch of other qualities, neccesary for dog to be considered a strong protector.
dog can be highly possessive but with low selfpreservation threshold and retreat at slightest sign of threat to own wellbeing.
5 and 9 week pups in video wasn't tested intentionally. it's just a recording of pup's behaviour in naturally happened circumstances but both, by their behaviour, catched my attention and definatelly both are the ones, whome i would test, to determine in the depth their innate qualities.

to be honest, i not care in what you believe and what  is your perception of GS dogs. after all i'm not the walking encyclopedia of dogs as well and don't have answers to everything. but over many years of involvement i have seen hundreds of pups, many of them tested by myself. even more pups tested with my participation. but best part of it - i had opportunity to observe their development from age 5~6 week to 10 month and to see if that preliminary assessment did came true or not.

Environmentally solid dogs should not be the exception. You should not have to go through lenghts of having to expose dogs to different races because they smell different.

Not ever have I had a dog that had any issues with Asian, Mexican, African American... I heard the same thing in search training. I dont even know where this is coming from because the only thing I can think off is that the dog isn't a 100% stable to begin with.

I am way beyond making excuses for something that should never even be an issue in the first place.

As a dog trainer I have seen all kimds of different dogs with different stability levels and temperament. Some of it was created, like learned aggression, thats a real thing. The majority however is shit breeding paired with overexposure and oversocialization and there is such a thing. People are so afraid to end up with an unfriendly dog that they overdo it.. And why? Because breeders take shortcuts and breed dogs that either dont make a good fit or shouldnt be bred in the first place. 

They put structure above stability, or breed for straight up color, grips or drive. All of that is important but ONLY when the stability is there. Once you sacrifice that, you are done!

Administartors *** please delete the pictures posted and anything else might reveal my identity . Emoryg that was thoughtless of you to have done that and negligent , without my expressed permission. If I wanted to be identified I would have put my personal information on the threads myself . I don't want notoriety .

Well said, BE!

Cent is that you training your dogs in them videos

That would be him. Especially reading the about section and his reaction. It also explains everything. 🤷

We'll everyone know who he is now and that should not have happened.

personally, I dont understand why anybody who has strong opinion, wants his own person and work/breeding kept anonymous, but it is what it is