Showline sires who produce dogs who can work? - Page 6

I have a black/red working line dog - a female though - and she is awesome.  http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/341970.html

molly

 

Ok, I train and handle my own dogs and I have a ton of respect for others who do so also, but a good dog is a good dog regardless of who trained it. I would not use a stud I couldn't see work, or a puppy whose parents I couldn't see work, but if the dog works well, does it really matter if the dog is H.O.T or not? Last I checked, the handler doesn't affect genetics... Flame away.

Its really easy to pick apart a dog/handler/decoy/breeder when you're sitting in the stands.  If you don't walk the walk, it's all bluster imo.

By the way, I would've been more than happy to sign the petition if my membership was not currently expired. I use my real name on every webboard I use. 

Shelley, No suicidal tendencies here!! LOL and I keep my inhaler handy always. :-) Ravi, BEAUTFUL post!! It nearly brought tears to my eyes. It reminds us that a dog is the only love and loyalty that can be purchased...and we often foget to live up to our end of the partnership. I look forward to seeing you and Juneau in Texas.

I guess in this day and age having a  titled HOT dog seems like an advantage in some ways. It gives more credence to the working ability of the dog since politics are not usually a part of the equation. A dog qualifying with an owner/ handler/ trainer might be perceived as being less apt to have been gifted a title thus more deserving. It's not easy to determine which dogs are the real deal and which are not just by looking at their titles and show placements.

I'm sure there are plenty of dogs that have been pro trained and handled that have earned their titles honestly. Unfortunately, the few that have been implicated in dishonest activities are considered the norm and not the exceptions. The one rotten apple spoils the entire barrel way of thinking.  Demanding that the bar be raised could profit the breed in the long run and not accepting the assumption that - it's the way it is and it will never change so why bother - might be exactly what  some hope to see happen. In the long run that would be counterproductive to the future of the GSD in the US.

What a great topic. 

It is really good to see that the general public is now looking past all the bulls$it promotions that most of the top show dogs in the USA have been hiding behind.  There are so many  VA dogs and super highline well know dogs that really have poor character, and it seems as if people are no longer fooled and want to ensure that these dogs are actually capable of doing what is expected. 

With that being said, I must say that there are a good number of dogs that live up to these expectations (some mentioned above), However there is a suprising amount of dogs that do not,  I like to call the good ones "Honest dogs" and the others that can barely pass a protection test well...."not so honest"

I am not one for talking about others dogs unless asked directly, so I will offer up one of my dogs who fits the bill of what I call an Honest Dog.   I call him Jaz.  Here is his link.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/394456.html

This is a dog that has given a terrific preformance  in three countries displaying his love for the work during the protection  routine.  He has never received a gift, his kennel name does not  give him any  points, and he is a result of a breeding that took place  in Norway.  He has placed V1 multible times, and is one of the few LG Siegers residing in the USA.  Video's of his protection work have always been available, and his SchH 3 scores are : 90,94, 97.  In Germany he was always placed at the top of his class along some of the most well known dogs in the world, and well ahead of most USA VA rated dogs. 

But what makes him such an "Honest" dog is his character on and off the field. 

So when I look for an Honest dog I look at the dogs video's of the protection test, as well as his show placements in Germany.  Though Jaz placed V49 in the German Sieger Show, I look at the other shows to really get a good feel of what the judges are saying, as there is less presure and sometimes Sieger Shows can be a little deceving if you can not read between the lines.

I usually dont post so much on here these days as there are so many arguments, and many people believe that there is only one way to train a dog.  I am not really a fan of the tyrants that say either my way or the highway, as I beleive there is more then one way to train a dog to sit correctly.

But I am really compelled to stress the importance of the Honest dog, to direct the future of the breed.

Again, all this is just my humble opinion and I thank all of you for allowing me to participate in your conversation.

If requested I can offer another example of what I call an Honest Dog.

Respectfully,

Carl Morgan

Ravi,

IMO you deserve a standing ovation for your last comments

That's exactly what its all about... man & dog in a real partnership of mutual respect, love & work. Whether your buzz is ratting with a rag tag terrier, rabbiting with a wiley lurcher, or fumbling around at the bottom of the tracking ladder (as I'm trying to do, ahem) what really matters is that unique bond between man & dog. Points aren't scored for it but it's the thing at any level that is most rewarding & most remembered. It's no surprise to me that you are as successful as you are.

On a slightly different note I notice that two of the SL dogs mentioned in the thread, Juneau & Jaz, both have Yasko in their pedigree. In additon Bazi (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/439227.html) also has Yasko in there & am I correct in saying he also has a good reputation for his work? 

My own dog also has Yasko, & funnily enough Enzo - the same as Juneau, in his pedigree & he also has that same strong, calm, confident character and a real desire to work. If only I was good enough to do him justice...

I wonder what Yasko himself was like, anybody know?

Cheers,

Andy B.

 

Why then don't all breeders review bitework videos prior to choosing a stud dog if that's so important? Or do they and just ignore the negative aspects of the dogs because of who owns them and because they are the flavors of the day? The vids from this year's SS show sure didn't seem to put a dent in the reputations of some of the dogs that did the worse bitework - falling off the sleeve for example but still ending up with a Va rating.  Some are still touted as the greatest dogs ever born in spite of their poor performances and others are rushing to their defense.  I would guess they will sire just as many, maybe more, litters since their substandard performances have been outted than ever before. 

Cheers to Ravi and those of you who also walk the walk. You are the only hope for a bright future for this breed. For some others it's just lip service.

The best showline dog who can work in U.S. in my opinion is Valee vom Haus Tyson.  Ravi knows him too.  In Germany there are a few more but my favorite is Mexx vom Aurilius.

 

Ajay

Either the dog is genetically sound and able to produce his attributes--or he isn't.

While it might appear to be attractive "icing on the cake", the facts that a dog may be HOT or trialed at a club trial shortly before a SS are not crucial issues in evaluating the suitability of a stud or his character. A ideal dog has been successfully titled (and, hopefully, has competed on other than own the home field) and shown where there has been credible competition and judging--the signatures in the scorebook, show card, and on the breed survey are critical.

My concerns are (1) the relationship of mutual respect and rapport of the dog with his handler/owner (who has done the dog's "imprinting" and who molds/reinforces the dog's behavior on a daily basis); (2) that the dog is not a kennel or trophy dog; (3) that the dog is a trusting "social" animal having a real personality, sense of humor, great self-esteem, a native intelligence (not always measured by what is recorded in a scorebook), and versatility.  

Again, the proof of the pudding lies in what the dog and his immediate family have been able to produce for several generations. Pimping doesn't change the dog's genetic value. I also value a knowlegeable owner with an inquisitive mind--one who has a practical knowledge of animal husbandry, and one who has paid his dues to the breed and as a trainer on a longitudinal basis.

As for the contributions of Yasko Farbenspiel, they may be a mixed bag. IMO, Larus is not the best example of Yasko's production. While Yasko had a nice work ethic, a great personality, and genetic package, he did not always pass on these attributes to his female progeny. Based on my observations and experience, Yasko's sire, Ursus, was the greater producer of his own incredible character, drives, and working ability.

Finally, one must always consider the qualities that the bitch (and her owner--who will be whelping, raising, and imprinting the litter) brings to the breeding table.

 

I know Valee only too well.... I probably know Valee better than Ajay knows my dog Juneau.

He is owned and trained by Ganesh Krishna who incidentaly was the person who picked Juneau out for me and it was Ganesh who got me into this sport.

Valee is one hell of a dog. His nickname at the Menlo Park Schutzhund club is "The Alligator" in reference to his bite. That is a compliment coming from a TD like Joel Monroe... which is saying a lot.

Hedi Theis has bred to Valee a couple of times at least. He is definitely a dog that brings working ability to the table.